Need some guidance on my numbers

(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #1

I’m about 24-26 hours into a fast. I’ve checked my numbers and my ketones are dropping like a rock and my glucose is 88. Normally on Keto my breath ketone levels are 2.4 and above, they are now .95. Any wisdom on why this is happening would be appreciated. Should I stop the fast? Is this a big problem or something going wrong?

(Justin ) #2

I found this post. May make sense to you.

I always wished there was a way to KNOW if I ever was in a state of autophagy and it seemed like there was no way to measure it. The general consensus among respected sources seemed to say it would be safe to guess that water/salt fasting for a number of hours would start autophagy which would peak in about 3 days but there wasn’t a way to check or to be sure. At least that was my take away.

Watching this Dr Boz Youtube today beginning at about 22.00, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXoa6dDVEyc&t=1546s She fairly confidently gives a way to estimate if your level of intensity of fasting was intense enough to reach certain levels of autophagy: by taking blood sugar and blood ketone levels, taking the results and dividing blood sugar level by ketone levels to get a ratio. For weight loss, the ratio should be between 70 to 100. If the goal is for autoimmune, the ratio should be 50-70. For cancer patients in order to stress cancer cells, the ratio should be less than 20 and should ONLY be attempted with a Doctor present.

I am fat adapted and after 17.5 hours of water fasting, my BS was 91 and my BK was 1.4 giving me a ratio of 65 which may have put me in the range of doing my autoimmune disease (exhibited in arthritis) some good. I’d feel more confident if the source was someone like Valter Longo at USC Davis, Ana Maria Cuervo at Albert Einstein College or Medicine or Thomas Seyfried at Boston College.

I did find this NIH article with Thomas Seyfried https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4367849/ that states:
“Methods
A program was developed (Glucose Ketone Index Calculator, GKIC) that tracks the ratio of blood glucose to ketones as a single value. We have termed this ratio the Glucose Ketone Index (GKI)…
Results
The GKIC was used to compute the GKI for data published on blood glucose and ketone levels in humans and mice with brain tumors. The results showed a clear relationship between the GKI and therapeutic efficacy using ketogenic diets and calorie restriction.”

Did everyone else know and understand this except me??? It sure motivates me to build my “water fasting muscle” and FMD trials and do more of it.

I’d love others to check out the video, share their thoughts and check my understanding. If this is all for real, I’m thrilled to be able to get a sense of whether I have any autophagy going on and if so, at what therapeutic range. If I have arrived late to this party and everyone already knows about this, a simple “Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus” will be fine! Thanks!

Dr Boz Calculates levels of autophagy using blood sugar/blood ketones ratio
(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #3

My blood sugar is 88, blood ketones 1.0 . So my ratio is 88? I just don’t understand why my ketones have dropped so much. Is this what happens with autophagy?

(Justin ) #4

I am not that technical. I just know you get into autophagy around after 24hrs of fasting and now your cells are now recycling old components and breaking down proteins.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

Stop measuring already. Just stop and relax. You’re fasting, stuff happens when you fast. Whatever is happening will sort itself out. Glucose, insulin, ketones, BrAce and whatever else you’re so diligently monitoring. I know it’s very interesting to measure this stuff (I measure!), but don’t obsess or get paranoid because something is lesser or greater than you think it should be. :relaxed:

(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #6

I’m about 48 hours in to my fast at this point. I’m planning to refeed sometime tomorrow, timing depends on how I feel and an appointment tomorrow afternoon. I feel I should wait until I get back home due to the possibility of gastric issues. I really don’t want to wait until 72 hours though because that would put me too close to bedtime and eating late disturbs my sleep.

(Robert C) #7

It is probably much more important to not be out in public when breaking your first fast.
Some people have little trouble and others cannot more than a few feet from the bathroom for hours.

Eating a little later (for which you already know the consequences - a little disturbed sleep) is probably a much better idea.

PS - If it does go well the first time - don’t automatically assume it will other times.

(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #8

I will be back home well before bedtime, but it will be short of 72 hours. I’m not too worried about that, just happy to have made it this far.

Thanks for the warning :scream_cat:

(Alec) #9

Jane
Although I am not a ketone measurer, my take is that during your fast your body is burning fat (good), creating ketones (good), burning those ketones as well as fat because your body likes burning ketones (good), and therefore expelling fewer ketones to measure in your breath (good).

I’d say 4 goods is pretty good and nothing to worry about. Keep calm and fast on!

(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #10

@Alecmcq I like your thinking!

(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #11

Total airhead here. I kept saying 36 hours when I meant 72. DOH! :roll_eyes:

(Alec) #12

I did wonder about the maths, but I was sure you knew what you meant! :joy::joy::+1:

(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #13

Well, I ended my fast at 65.5 hours, the thing I was to attend got canceled. I’m pretty happy with this, although, I wasn’t hungry at all and probably could have gone a couple more days. At least I got through it, and now I know I can. I plan to begin alternate day fasting on M, W, F, soon. I might wait a week because DH will be on vacation and underfoot all week wanting to eat, plus, our anniversary is next Saturday the 27th.

(Justin ) #14

Hi Jane, just wondering how long you have been fasting. I have for about two months and my longest iss 44 hours or so. I am around there right now and not sure if I should go to 72 or eat now. I feel good but a little hesitant. Not sure why? Just mental I guess.

(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #15

I’ve fasted several times in my life, but not longer than 24 hours for years. This one was the longest fast in about 16 years. It went amazingly well and I can see myself fasting for longer and more regularly going forward. I, too, was very hesitant. A few years ago I lost 60 pounds with severe calorie restriction and felt hungry all the time. Whenever I went any amount of time without eating I would feel weak, confused, and get a severe headache. I believe my hesitation this time was because of those memories. Thankfully this fast was totally different, I felt very little hunger for the first 36 hours, then none. I didn’t even feel hungry when I decided to stop the fast, it was just about timing and wanting to be able to sleep well tonight. I didn’t have any indication of a headache, and no confusion. I attribute this to the Ketosis and all the good fats I’ve been eating. I hope that incorporating alternate day fasting will maybe help me get rid of this last 13 or so pounds I need to lose. I’d say if you feel good keep going to 72 hours if you can.

(Justin ) #16

Thanks for the history and your insight.Yeah I have been keeping my salt up and I feel really good. Well glad this has gone well for you and over that hesitation. Well good luck on losing that last 13. Keep everyone posted. I will see how I feel in a few hours and maybe change my plan.