Need guidance - been doing some form of keto and IF for several months - not losing - have gained

(Paul McCrorey) #1

Been toying with Keto / IF etc. for over a year. Don’t consider myself a newbie in terms of time…but in terms of results - i’m pretty bummed. Started the journey of research and learning over 1 yr. ago. Dr. Fung, Dr. Berry, 2Ketodudes…got into it…loved the learning and paradigm shift. Wasn’t hyper focused on results - the whole “keep calm and Keto on” mantra is how I was attacking it. I never weigh - just keep plugging along. SO…while I am at the store last week UPPING my size of pants it occurred to me…dude - you are doing something wrong!

I do NOT track macros but I try to add as much fat as I can (via butter) because I am aware of the ‘internet keto’ thing where it is difficult to really get as much fat as we need.

So…that’s why I am here asking for some help.

I am 49 yo male. My A1C is 5.5 (has come down from 5.6)…my triglycerides are like 250 (have been as high as 500). My LDL has increased since i’ve been on this and I’m OK with that. My HDL is like 34…which I think it too low.

Weight is 220lbs ish? I don’t weigh (it could be 230). I did do an HCG diet back in mid 2016 (started 245 - ended up 195 after 3 months). Put a 20 lbs back on over the next 6 months while not doing anything crazy. This started my journey into Keto and the whole ‘calorie model fallacy’ vs. ‘insulin’ model…which I am quite certain is more correct than ‘calorie’ model.

My barometer that it ain’t going well as it could is my FRIGGIN’ pregnant stomach - which I loathe! The fact that I have now need to buy 38" waist size (up from the 34" back at 195) TICKS ME OFF!

Eating habits. Never eat breakfast anymore. Do drink coffee with a stevia based sweetener (super sweet from Trim healty mama) and Heavy cream sometimes other times butter. Wondering if this is the killer but it’s fat either way (Creamer has some protein).
Usually eat 2-3 eggs with 4-6 strips of bacon or 4-5 sausage patties. The whole ‘eat to satiety’ thing. I usually am full - not bloating or sick but just full. I will have oolong tea with some sweetener and creamer.
Evening: sometimes I’ll OMAD or will eat a rib-eye with butter. Sometimes I’ll eat fried sausages in a skillet with butter and maybe a few onions. Sometimes i’ll eat pork rinds…sometimes I’ll drink a coke zero.
But for the most part, I am characterized by eating fatty meats.

Rarely if ever do I eat crappy carbs…but if that happens, it’s most likely 1-2 times a month. When I say crappy carbs it’s really limited to some pizza or something and it’s not an entire one. I have really tried to ‘watch’ this and I don’t think it’s excessive. But hey - it could be…I don’t have any ‘cheat’ desires or anything…it’s just a more non-stressed view of it. I’m in it for the long haul…so I don’t tend to worry a lot.

I have fasted on numerous occasions - Daily IF - sometimes OMAD…and I have done 4-5 extended fasts of 2 days but nothing regular. I feel like I am fat-adapted…and don’t get “hangry” when I skip meals. I eat till full and keep rolling. I don’t know if I am eating too much? But that goes back to the whole calorie thing. How do you know how much to eat? Satiety is what I’ve heard. I dont’ know. help!

SO - overall - I feel like I am doing a LOT of things right. YET…I am NOT seeing weight loss results…and that’s pretty frustrating.

I am feeling good - I must say that. So I am still on the train. I would just like to tweak whatever needs to be tweaked and get the ball rolling in a downward direction.

Any way - I would consider myself fairly knowledgeable and have helped several of my friends/family get on this and have witnessed their success. I am certain it’s the right way to go…but dang it! I am frustrated from my lack of results.

I don’t know if its a metabolic issue, if there is some other issue…If the coffee has caused this problem, if its something I am eating… I am wondering if there is some blood work or some other test I could try to help diagnose what is going on. This is not something I have taken lightly and I have tried to do the right thing for the most part. I have tried to stay calm and not get all stressed out and raise the cortisol - etc.

Just at a loss and hoping I’ve said something here that will clue someone in on what steps I need to take to get this moving in the right direction.

I could use some help! Thanks in advance

Paul

(shawnk) #2

I would try dropping the sweeteners, which can make some people either eat more or affect blood sugar. Since you’ve been doing this long enough that you’re already fat adapted, I wouldn’t add butter to already fatty meats like rib-eyes. It looks like you may be overdoing the added. Remember less than 20 grams carbs, and fat to satiety. The fat that you’re burning can come off of your body or your plate. And black coffee is wonderful if you get a good brew. The only bad thing that happened to me when I discovered this WOE was heavy whipping cream in coffee. I found myself using way too much over many cups per day and started to gain weight back. Now I’m back to black coffee and losing again. Also, dairy, in general, is inflammatory, and causes many people to stall or gain.

(Paul McCrorey) #3

@shawnkuplin THANK YOU very much for reading that super long book up there. Thx for the guidance as well. My reasoning for adding the fat was to try and change the macros. I understand that protein turns to sugar eventually so in order to balance out macro’s wouldn’t I need to add fat? Although it makes sense about burning fat on the plate vs. fat on the bootie.

How do you get your fat intake up w/out the protein?

As far as sweeteners go - I’ve heard that about the insulin response.

Very interesting on the whipping cream. I kinda suspected that but wasn’t sure. thx for the data point. What about butter in coffee…you do that?

(shawnk) #4

There’s been much controversy in the keto world about protein amounts. I think some overdo the protein and some worry about it turning to sugar to much. In general, a palm size portion with each meal, regardless of the number of meals, is a minimum. I don’t try to hit any fat goals or add fat except for flavor and satiety. To my taste and satiety, a ribeye has a lovely, satisfying amount of fat and doesn’t need butter. The sweeteners may be messing with hunger signals or just may be addictive to you. You may want to try measuring and logging for a while, and using a macro calculator that focuses on grams and calories, and not percentages. It’s been a while, and I forgot what calculator and logging app, I used. My guess is you’re over on fat and calories. I think the last thing you need to worry about is protein turning to sugar. Some say that’s demand driven, and if you’re eating one or two meals per day and not snacking, that’s hard to overdo.
I drink my coffee black. Try a good medium roast, and get used to it. My husband adds sweeteners and milk to his, and I tell him he doesn’t like coffee, he likes melted coffee ice cream. lol Picking on him is a hobby. I like Dharma Beans by Raven’s Brew. Some people add salt to cut the bitterness. But I think that drinking your calories and fat isn’t helpful for most. For me, I also have to cut things out (like HWC, cheese and nuts that aren’t part of a recipe) because they are addictive and trigger me to eat to much of them.

(Robert C) #5

YES! sweeteners can mess up your gut but also drive hunger.

YES! add cream or butter after you hit the size you want. Look forward to an extra thing you can have in maintenance.

My only other ideas:

  • You might be making all of your meals taste too good. Extra butter on everything, sweeteners as well as usage of spices and buying very good tasting sausage etc. This will mess up your satiety signaling. Some chewier steak, bland sausage (or just unspiced ground beef or pork), less butter as a seasoning might be good.
  • You might be eating too fast. Lots of what you listed cuts and chews pretty easily - you might be trying to listen to satiety signaling but not getting it until it is too late. Strategies are counting the chews of your food (I don’t like this one - gets too mushy), just eating slowly (mindfully) or eating part of the meal and getting up from the table for 10 or 15 minutes and then going back for more (the fact that the food is cooler will help too).
(Cindy) #6

Are you sure it’s just 1-2 times/month? And do you truly know how many carbs you’re eating when you do that? If you’re eating enough carbs and it’s kicking you out of ketosis, you could be spending the next 2 days in “sugar burner” mode, which means that more of the fat (and anything else) you eat is going to get preferential treatment to be stored as fat. So all the extra fat, in that situation, is a disaster. At least, that’s my understanding of eating “higher” carb and high fat.

So that could be as much as 1 week in a month that you’re undoing all the good of the other weeks. Since keto can be a slow loss/slow change WOE, I’d take a hard look at those crappy carb days.

Essentially, though, you have to find what works for you. Maybe you are extra sensitive to sweeteners…cut those out for 2 weeks and see if it makes a difference. If it doesn’t, add them back in, but maybe cut out dairy for 2 weeks. Maybe try switching back to 3 meals/day, cutting out the added fat (sausages, bacon, etc already have plenty of fat in them), etc.

Good luck to you!

(Allie) #7

It would be well worth you tracking for a month to see exactly how much you’re eating and what macros you’re hitting, and you don’t need copious amounts of dietary fat once your body has got used to running on ketones - in fact too much dietary fat will encourage your body to just burn that when you really want it to burn your own stores.

As others have said, the sweeteners may well be an issue too.

It’s simple really, just keep carbs below 20g and let the rest take care of itself. I used to obsess over keeping protein around 89g but don’t give it any thought now, nor do I stress about adding extra fat to every meal and apparently over the last four weeks my daily average for protein has been 110g with average fat of 142g (carbs 18g).

But really tracking, because if you don’t know what you’re putting into your body, you can’t properly assess where the problem is.

(Elizabeth) #8

You took the words out of my mind I’ve gained weight got very discouraged went on a two day carb binge just a rebel I was pissed . I was shocked when I went to put on jeans and I couldn’t zip them up

(Frank) #9

Time to fundamentally change what you’re doing. Stick to black coffee, leaner cuts of meat, lay off the extra fats, cut the artificial sweeteners, no cheat days, etc. if you’re confident that you’re fat adapted, your body will get all the fat it needs from your love handles. Time to buckle down and put some real work in. You’ve helped others that have seen success. It’s about time for you to shine. Btw. I’m 47 and started at 235. So you and I share similar stats. I’m 14 months in now, at maintenance weight around 185 and “now” can enjoy a nice ribeye, a bulletproof coffee, and even a few beers now and then with absolutely no effect on my weight. There was about 6 months though of shoulder down work that needed to be done. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

(Janelle) #10

At first I thought I was reading my own story. Does it make you even more frustrated that you’re a guy and everyone around you seems to have this whole thing pegged?

I’m having to have a “come to jeebus” talk with myself. I have to try the fat reduction (no cheese for a while), no sweeteners, watch the veggie amount, etc.

Good luck with your journey!

(Jill F.) #11

I agree about tracking. 8 am tracking faithfully on Carb Manager and if I have not looked something up before I always do especially at restaurants before ordering. It helps me make sure it does not have hidden carbs.

A lot of people can just watch carbs and keep them under 20 a day and eat all the eggs and bacon they want. I can not. When I do I gain weight or stall in weight loss. I try to stick with the macro goals the app sets for me including caloric intake. So far it has worked for me, I have lost almost 20 pounds in 2 months.

Also consider adding some light exercise like walking or something similar to rev up your metabolism. I would also try to watch snacking and make sure if you don’t is keto friendly stuff. Best of luck!

(mole person) #12

This is unfortunately misinformation and may well be why you are gaining fat. Only during fat adaptation and maintenance should fat be added to food to FILL out macros. When you are trying to lose fat you want the opposite. To reduce the amount of fat you are adding until it’s just enough to satisfy your satiety when added to your other macros.

Fat is our energy source on keto. But the point of getting fat adapted is that your body will turn to its own fat stores to satisfy a portion of this need. If you are adding loads of fat to every meal your body has no reason to tap those stores, and will even pack on more fat.

You really should track for a while. Lazy keto works for some but not for everyone. It assumes that satiety is working correctly but that’s just not always the case.

(Janelle) #13

When I first started keto (5 months ago), there was a huge no tracking, drink butter and bacon grease from a siphon thing going on - especially from successful weight losing men on this forum (sorry guys, but it’s true - I can refer back to the eleventy billion posts on it). The climate has changed. That heartens me. The kind of keto they’re talking about just doesn’t work for everyone.

#14

I totally agree with tracking what your eating. Because sometimes you think you’re eating a certain amount of something but once you write it down it can be a real shock to see what’s really going on. My first couple weeks were untracked but then I decided too use my fitness pal and I was wayyyy off on my estimated carbs. I mean by like 200%.
Artificial sweeteners work for some, but don’t work for far more. It seems like stevia has one of the worst insulin responses of them all, and insulin is a fat storage hormone so you may have been encouraging your body to store fat all this time. I eat more plants than most but I would switch your pizza nights for taco salad nights or zoodle nights. Get your carbs from good stuff, not refined junk food.
Ketosis is not fat adaptation. I sound preachy and rude but I’m by no means an expert :wink:. I just read a lot of posts and articles, watch lectures, read books and the common thread I’ve seen is that people who aren’t losing what they’d like, you look at their consumption there is usually stevia, perhaps more fat than they need, hardly any veg, but lots of pork rinds and butter pats. I think if they took out some of the foods confusing their bodies, like sweeteners, it might give that little push in the right hormonal direction.
Also, I think people are too afraid of protein. Maybe just replacing a few of your fat calories with protein might help you once you are fat adapted. Not low fat by any means, but give your body the chance to burn your body fat too. You may be feeding yourself enough fat that it doesn’t need to carryover it’s energy needs to your body fat. I say this as having upped my protein a little too early and I think that stalled me a bit this past week or so because I’m fat adapted yet when I thought I was. I’ve backed that down a little.
Hopefully that’s helpful!

#15

Also this… stress belly. Besides tweaking the diet, you may need to tweak lifestyle. You could be eating perfect but if your still pumping out cortisol like it’s going out of style, you may not make the progress you want.
Natural ways are exercise, mindfulness, good sleep, find hobbies that Bring you joy, watch comedies, laugh away, etc. Other ways might need doctor support. I tried on my own for years but then went to the doctor and got the lowest available strength anxiety medication I could and it increased my quality of life by like 100%. Instead of a constant low level buzz of stress and anxiety, I feel those things when I am supposed to. In return I think it’s helped me feel more able to change my lifestyle.
If you have a stressful work life that is hard to escape from, then I highly recommend seeing a doctor for help. Worst case scenario, it doesn’t help and you’re at the place you are, best cause scenario you get a little help and your life improves. You won’t end up worse off so I highly encourage it.

(Door Girl) #16

Great comments here. How are you accounting for the carbs in the onions? Those things are crazy high in sugars! (That’s why carmelized onions are almost candy :slight_smile: )

Between the sweeteners, possible overlooked carbs in your meals, and the “more please” view on fat you may just need a few tweaks to really see results. Track. Track everything. I was shocked when I saw that a clove of garlic is 1g of carbs. There are all sorts of things like that. In my first week, I found a quarter or more of my carbs came from flavorings or seasonings.

Since you are already down to less than 3 meals a day, at least there will be less to track! Great work so far.

#17

Garlic and onions are my favorite cooking vegetables ever and that’s what really got me at first too. I account for them now and use garlic powder or onion powder (the foodie in me shudders) and then garnish with fresh for this very reason. I just never thought garlic of all things would be so carby :weary:
Even the powders are carby but at least the flavors are more concentrated so I can use a half teaspoon instead of like a whole onion and save a couple carbs

(Door Girl) #18

I still use them, just with more moderation and with awareness of their carb content. I also no longer use a 2-4x multiplier on garlic in all recipes. :slight_smile: Hate to share this, but the onion and garlic powder have carbs too. (Ducks to avoid thrown cast iron! Okay, maybe no need to duck as your edit tells me you know this already.)

I have some calculators on a spreadsheet that let me enter all the seasonings for a recipe and drive the nutritional information from the USDA database. Eye opening, but probably most important in the case of stalls. If you are doing well with what you are doing, KCKO. If stalled, then maybe get granular or microscopic on this.

(Paul) #19

Just a question, have you mercury amalgam? Have you had a heavy metal hair done.
Heavy metals can keep body fat, especially belly as it disrupts the mineral transport system.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #20

I cut out onions and garlic a month ago. I was caramelizing onions all the time.
I also cut back on tomatoes. And I cut down on dairy. I have a great love of HWC and espresso, I am drinking Oolong tea more and I always drink tea straight up, no sweetener or dairy. The scale has moved down some.

I have recently started using Cronometer to analyze my choices and I like it. It’s especially useful planning that second meal of the day so you don’t overdo the carbs and fat. I am using a 20% macro deficit now. I have lost 25# but still have a good 15-20 more to loose. I am hoping that this does the trick. I have also started a random eating schedule varying between OMAD, TMAD, occasional low caloric days, and regular 3 meal days too.