My story and if hungry do you eat more protein or fat?

(Normajean) #1

Hi. So here is my story. I started Keto about 3 months ago. Down about 13 pounds. I was really good the first half of my journey. However I was living alone as I got a new job and had to relocate ahead of my family. So it was pretty easy to just eat what I needed and not have other people to cook for or foods around. I usually was 15 carbs or less a day. I was starving all the time though. Then we closed on a house and moved in so I was not diligent weighing my foods and tracking macros. I was lax. I wasn’t eating pizza and french fries all the time though! I only truly cheated probably 3 or 4 times, meaning eating crap carbs like sugar for flour. The rest of the lax time I got carbs from processed meats, veggies, almond flour, and dairy. Often I would be over 20 carbs a day and fat/protein macros high also. Mostly because I was hungry. It was all I could do to fast until lunch (I have coffee with stevia and sometimes add 1 TBSP heavy cream or Ghee and blend). I never had Keto flu. I maintained my weight during that time. I did recently realize that I was making a big mistake on gum. I didn’t realize it had 1 carb per piece and I was chewing it a LOT. So I have stopped that.

So now I’m trying to get back on track again but my issue all along is I am hungry. Seems that I am always hungry on any diet and everyone else says after you get into so many weeks you will lose all your cravings. I laugh at this. They said this on Nutrisystem too. I wonder if I am the only person in the world that always gets hungry. :frowning: But I digress.

So last week I finally read about the need for extra sodium and electrolytes. I started salting a lot with sea salt, pink salt, and potassium no-salt. In fact last week after I added a bunch of salt the next day when I woke up I had indentations on my face that stayed there for hours. #dork :scream: So I didn’t use quite so much after that.

On Friday I decided to start restricting carbs super low because I am one of those who can barely get into ketosis at 15 carbs a day. If I eat a big salad or bunch of veggies it’s over. So I wanted to go super low to try to see if all the carbs I was eating were why I was still getting hungry. Well by Saturday I had the Keto flu. I did eat a little dark choc later thinking it might make me feel better but it didn’t.

Also on Saturday I received my Amazon order of unflavored liquid electrolyte drops. No carbs. I don’t want to use any flavored powders as I am trying to stay away from fake sugars and unnecessary crap. Well now that I look at the stats of the drops they are somewhat weak electrolytes for what I am reading that we should be consuming. So I used have been using a LOT of drops. I used them all day Saturday and felt horrible. I finished Saturday at 12 carbs because of the chocolate. I felt better Sunday, only had 3 carbs.

Then today sick again. I’ve had about 7 carbs today. I fasted today until dinner though. Which I have been trying a lot lately and it has been pretty hard because I get so hungry. I continued using my liquid drops today and also picked up a calcium, magnesium, zinc no carb supplement (had 3 of those). For lunch I made a chicken broth (nutritional yeast + spices) that calculated to about 2 carbs per cup. I’ve had 2 of those cups. So the good news is… I was NOT starving at all today. Not sure if it’s the placebo effect, the keto flu, or if the sodium, broth, and electrolytes are working. I ate dinner (just protein & fat- shrimp and chicken livers, around 3 carbs, 600 cal, 40 fat, 56 protein and I don’t feel hungry hours later. I do still feel a little sick though so that may be why.

But I guess my question is if I am hungry on a given day and going to go over macros (fully understanding I may not lose any weight that day) is it better to go over on fat or protein? Or does it matter? I am hoping I can just get to the point where I am not hungry if I just eat my macros like everyone else says. I just wanna be that person! :smirk:

#2

I think the general consensus is that if you’re still hungry, eat more fat. You might be going a little too high on the protein too (excess protein would be getting converted to sugars). Also you might be trying to fast too much too soon if you’re not fully fat adapted after getting back on the horse.

Just my guess, (and I might be wrong) so take my advice with a grain of salt until someone with better keto knowledge weighs in on the conversation.

(Rob Grantham) #3

I’ve also been having issues with constant hunger since starting needing to eat 4/5 times a day. At first I went with it… but I realised after a while that what my body was cleverly doing was living off of what little glucose I was giving it each meal through protein and small amount of carbs. Well I recently read about the benefits Of just 3 meals a day just with a 16 hour daily fast. This I believe is the first time I’ve been able to adapt. How do i know this? I no longer wake up ravenous and constantly thinking of food.

#4

I personally feel better on more protein but I am trying to manage blood sugar/hormones & not lose weight. Most people will say to eat more fat but you really have to find what works for you.

(Normajean) #5

@Rob_Grantham I find that I want to skip breakfast and lunch if I can because I can eat a large meal and/or have an evening snack. If I get hungry at night there is no stopping me and I will just end up blowing the whole day. I can easily eat 1,000 calorie meal and not be satisfied.

(Normajean) #6

Ok I’ll try to see what happens if I add more fat. I know I add protein and that hasn’t worked. I just have a hard time when I am out of remaining protein and can’t “eat” anything. Fat alone isn’t satisfying. The mental component.

(Normajean) #7

Yeah I forgot about that. Good point. I’ll try to focus on upping fat.

(Running from stupidity) #8

This is very much a contended issue currently. Dr Ben Bikman in particular. Trying to find a good concise article currently.

(Joanna Parszyk ) #9

For me hunger is a symptom of not being fat adapted. Fat adaptation takes time and consistency and from your story l see that it has been not easy due to circumstances (totally understandable).
My advice is to really give it a try and time and if still hungry go with fat. Ppl with bad insulin sensitivity might not react well to overeating protein.
Try and see what works for you.
For me adding fat works.
Personal note: due to stupidity of my 20’s my metabolism was compromised ( low fat diets etc and almost developing an eating disorder) l had huge problems with achieving true satiety. My stomach, untill really stretched would still feel hungry.
If this is your case maybe bulk up your meals with with pure fiber (konjak flour is awesome for that).
Also cooked, hot meals would always cut it for me ( stews, creamy soups with a lot of fat and adequate protein). I could eat the same amount of food but if it is served warm it is always a win!

I’m never hungry after BP coffee ( no need to put a full stick of butter there, mix of 2T of butter and T of coconut oil works for me).

What triggers my hunger: lack of sleep, lack of salt and other electrolytes (Magnesium is the king),SWEETENERS, too much dairy, cold weather, being under huge stress/pressure.

Good luck, l hope some of this helps!
KCKO :wink:

(Tim Bourguignon) #10

I completely understand that feeling. It took me 3 tries at low carb diets to finally understand how my body responds to it and thus avoid the hunger yoyo and the emotional bumps associated with it.

What did the trick for me was to dissociate the diet-for-weight-loss-part from the change-my-lifestyle-part and thus give it time. It took me 6 months to get into ketosis, mostly because I didn‘t know about it before, but also because I slowly eased into it.

  1. Three Months of „Slow Carbs“

I started by removing all the „easy carbs“: bread, pasta, pizza, potatoes, rice, everything-with-dough, candy etc. Keeping fruits and vegetables and keeping the „slow carbs“ like lentils and beans to avoid hunger. That allowed me to slowly find a balance without all those elements in my diet and see how my body responds. I even still had one cheat day when needed. Again, the goal was to avoid hunger while easing into a different way of eating. Still I lost about 4-5 Kg pretty quickly and then plateaued. This phase lasted for about 3 months.

  1. One Month to „incidental carbs only“

Then I removed even more things, eliminating fruits containing fructose and the slow carbs while upping the protein intake. I was definitely in gluconeogenesis, but it wasn‘t my goal to avoid it. I used this phase to learn how many carbs are in which kind of vegetables and slowly understand what was needed for getting into Ketosis. Again, the meat and dairies were the adjusting variable to not be hungry.

  1. Let‘s try to get into Ketosis (and fail)

I then decided I was ready. I removed all the (now) obvious carbs and attempted to remain under the 20g limit / day. There I started using an app to track everything and discovered some more vegetables to avoid. After two weeks, I was there and eating meat and dairies as much as I wanted to avoid hunger. I was convinced I was in ketosis and after a colleague challenged me with a „prove it“, I bought a glucometer to test both blood sugar and ketones. I then realized that I was indeed not there: gluconeogenesis was killing my efforts and I was irregularly still having one day per week with too many carbs, that threw me off. So I slowly started eating more fat and reduced the protein intake and aimed for < 10g carbs instead of 20.

After 10 days I was finally in ketosis and have been almost continously for the past 3 months, losing 11Kg in the process.

So here are my learnings:

  • Easing into this process like this, concentrating on avoiding hunger instead of losing fat while „eating the right stuff“ was definitely a success factor. No mood swings!
  • Eventually, weight loss came, but as a side effect of me getting the hick of this new lifestyle and not the way around.
  • I am still fighting to understand when I have „eaten to satiety“, but I am still not reducing the caloric intake for the sake of it. The goal is still: „only allowed stuff and no hunger“.
  • I can‘t pinpoint any period of keto-flu in this process. Maybe this is a side effect of easing slowly into it?
  • I dropped out of ketosis once after a party and was surprised of 1) how bad I felt afterwards 2) how long it took me to get into nutritional ketosis again (3-5 days). In hindsight, it is clear to me why I didn‘t get into ketosis earlier: I was in gluconeogenesis and having at least one day per week above 20g of carbs, I was reseting the process regularly.

Maybe something for you to try as well?

#11

I hear your pain.

There are many things which you didn’t feel right with, and you stopped them very quickly. Mostly well advised. However, sometimes you just gotta stick with it.

Try this -

Limit your carbs to 20g or less per day. count and record fat, carbs, protein & calories. But ONLY RESTRICT CARBS. Don’t bother with anything else at this stage. If you start feeling rough, this is a GOOD SIGN. Just KCKO, it will pass.

Each morning, drink ketoaide made from -

1/2 teaspoon of Cream of tartar
1 teaspoon of sea salt
2 tablespoons of ACV
water (enough so you can drink the solution)

If you can take a magnesium supplement, this will help greatly. Do this for 3 weeks, and it will give you a good start. You can eat as much food as you like, within the above rules. I doubt you’ll be hungry for long.

Let us know how you get on.

(Bunny) #12

That hunger feeling is your glucose dropping too fast (you are crashing and burning), which most likely means you are restricting caloric intake to certain ratio grappling hooks, which then means you are not ready for restricting carbohydrates to lower levels; in other words your doing this too fast (the problem?), your body cannot handle that, best thing to do is eat a little tiny bit or piece of protein (meat) or several pieces when you feel those hunger pangs; to slowly and gradually in increments bring your body into balance and allowing it to reconfigurate, because by restricting your caloric intake too fast; you are telling your metabolism that your trying to starve it to death and it will hold onto the fat!

Metabolism is still too dependent on carbohydrates for energy and trying to do a quick switch-up will not work if you don’t understand how it works?

BTW: Looking at ketone numbers are tricky because you don’t know if your are looking at dietary fat or your own fat that is being oxidized into ketones for energy!

I am TRULY never hungry!

(Wendy) #13

When I first started I ate much more than I now do. I ate a little more often and didn’t try to intermittent fast. Maybe you just tried to do too much to soon.
Do you like bacon? Try making a batch and eating some when you feel hungry. It’s a nice ratio of fat and protein and had helped me when I needed a little something.
After awhile my appetite dropped a lot. I found it easy to fast and to stick to only eating at meals. I eat fat to my contentment. I love butter and put it on any veggies I might eat, add it to my meat even, if I need it. I use coconut oil, olive
Oil for salads.
Anyway I think if you are hungry all the time you might not be doing this right. Stop restricting anything but carbs and unhealthy foods. If it is manufactured replace it with real food and see if your appetite decreases. Artificial sweeteners especially make me hungry when I indulge.
So those are my thoughts. The thing that I love about keto is that I’m not hungry all the time. I’m not a tracker so besides watching the carbs I haven’t really stresses over the other two macros. I eat to satiety and vary how many meals I eat. I rarely snack and usually eat two meals a day.
Best of luck to you!

(Lisa Stevens) #14

The only time I don’t feel like I need to eat more is when I cut out all sweeteners. I know it sucks but that is my trigger. I’ve been keto over a year and I’m definitely fat adapted. I find both fat and protein satiating.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #15

I agree with keeping carbs under 20 g and eating all the fat and protein you want until your body stops fighting you. Eventually you will not be so hungry.

Also, I found it difficult to differentiate between “hungry” and “crave” when I first started. I’d think “I’m so hungry” eat a high protein/fat meal, and still be unsatisfied. What I really wanted was carbs. The more you stick with it and don’t give in (even with dark chocolate at the end of a tough day) the easier it will get.

Now if I have a craving for sweet, I allow myself coffee with cream. If I think I am hungry but it’s in between meals I have chicken broth (because I have to consider my electrolytes and may be that’s why I’m craving something right after a regular meal).

Stick with it, you can do it!

(Dan Dan) #16

Low Calories = Bad
Low Insulin = Good

You want to restrict Insulin not Calories :face_with_monocle::thinking:

Differentiate between Mental Hunger with Physical Hunger and feed them both by replace Mental Hunger with something equally mentally stimulating like dancing to your favorite songs or a good book and Physical Hunger with fat and don’t restrict calories. :sunglasses:

(Chris) #17

Meat has both. Eat that.

(Carl Keller) #18

My crutches duing the early phases of Keto were Deviled eggs and pork rinds. Whenever I was craving food, I would eat 1-1.5 DEs or 4-5 pork rinds and I was good to go. I will reiterate what some others have said, in that you are probably not fat adapted yet so don’t worry about trying to go long periods without eating just yet and that you should increase your fat intake. Best regards.

(Brian) #19

I can’t find it but I could swear that Ted Naiman had a graph that related to how satiating protein and fat were. They weren’t straight or parallel lines.

If I recall correctly, I think it was that protein was more satiating when a person is obese than when they’re closer to a normal weight. Fat was supposed to still be more satiating, but for the obese, not as significantly.

Wish I could find the graph. It was interesting.

(Omar) #20

I think we have to distinguish two states.

If fat adopted fat tend to be more satieting than proteins

If not fat adopted protein is more satieting