My friend doctor is worried about Colorectal Cancer due to red meat

cancer
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #41

While this is very true, the real concern is that we “know” meat is bad for people, so we cannot ethically perform a study on which people are intentionally put on a meat diet. Once the belief becomes established, even if based on no evidence whatsoever, it becomes impossible to ethically test it.

Thomas Seyfried runs into this when testing the ketogenic diet on cancer patients. He believes they’d recover a lot better without the toxic chemotherapy drugs or radiation damage, but chemo and radiation are the standard of care, so it would be unethical to withhold them. No ethical review board could possibly countenance withholding the standard of care. The patient can of course refuse, but then your caveat about self-selected samples comes into play.

(Alec) #42

This is a very convenient inertia in favour of the current (very profitable) status quo in a host of health areas. And do the people who set the standards of care and who decide on research ethics have any conflicts of interest? … Surely not… [ahem]…

(Joey) #43

In their defense, inasmuch as a “conflict of interest” implies one actually has more than a single interest, it’s fair for them to claim with some impunity that, no, there is no conflict.

(Alec) #44

No. There is a BIG difference between a “conflict of interest” and “multiple interests”. There is no excuse that these people have a conflict of interest.

(Joey) #45

In order to have a conflict of interest, one must first have an interest. :roll_eyes:

(Alec) #46

The folks we are discussing are highly educated, wealthy and powerful: they always have interests.

(Joey) #47

Okay then, perhaps we’re not discussing the same folks.

(Alec) #48

I am talking about the people who set the standards of care and who decide on research ethics: these people are at the top of their professions, are paid lots of money, and are very influential…. If they weren’t, they would not be deciding standards of care and on ethics boards.

(Joey) #49

Yup, same folks.

I see no conflict of interest if they don’t actually care about the rest of us.

Just one singular interest, i.e., self-interest. You need to have more than one for a conflict. :wink:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #50

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

While I get the joke, I expect Alec is focussing on the conflict between their self-interest and their ostensible commitment to following the science wherever it leads.

(Joey) #51

No doubt you’re correct about what Alec is focusing on - but would you rather watch us banter on about “conflict of interest” … or worry about colorectal cancer?

Having signed my fair share of conflict of interest policy statements, my mind is wandering down to my lower parts.

(Rossi Luo) #52

I have polyps too, but it’s found before I followed Keto diet, :sweat_smile:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #53

“Lower parts”? Now you’ve got my interest! :rofl:

Of course, my interest is much lower than the colon. Exactly how much lower, I leave you to guess. :smile:

(Joey) #54

Once we approach podiatry I start running out of parts in which to have an interest. :thinking:

(Bob M) #55

I was thinking more along the lines of eating actual whole plants, like broccoli, asparagus, etc. Even potatoes possibly, in moderation. (I even eat potatoes sometimes.) It’s the whole “I’ll eat anything that’s ‘plant based’” where you can get into the junk food.

It’s like the friends we had who went on a “paleo” diet only to eat tons of sugar like maple syrup, etc. One reason I’m not fond of an overly expansive definition of what’s “paleo”.

#56

Wow, I saw odd definitions of paleo but added sugar wasn’t in one of them. Bananas galore, that I saw… My paleo was high-carb due to my vegs, at least the day I tracked… It was quite impressive even from me, I got 208g carbs and most from vegs (and peas were out due to paleo)… I don’t know what I actually ate but it wasn’t a challenge for me back then. And my body doesn’t care if the sugar comes from lowish-carb vegs, it’s still sugar it’s better without.
(Animal sugar is another matter entirely, I still don’t understand why.)

Yeah, that’s clearly not good. But they care about plant-based, not health. Just like surely many ketoers only care about the carb content. Not everyone is health-conscious, sadly (and if someone is, it’s still not sure they will choose well as most people just don’t know what is healthy for them).

(Bob M) #57

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“Paleo” granola bars:

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Even more sugary:

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You can, if you want to do so, be a sugar addict on “paleo”. Doesn’t make sense to me that such recipes even exist (what paleo person had access to Medjool dates AND cranberries AND almonds?), but there you go.

#58

We will never know, at least in my lifetime, what the best way to eat is. It’s virtually impossible to run randomized trials for life. Observational studies are rife with massive uncertainty, food surveys are virtually useless and widely imprecise, food and humans are diverse, and conflicts of interest are a big problem (Chris Gardner). I think I will stop there, but I think you get the point.
Look at your family history. Start there.

#59

It doesn’t matter, paleo has little to do to with ancient people. Obviously, IMO. As we are modern ones with our own circumstances and access to our modern food, it’s impossible to eat like in the distant past and that is fine. The name is a bit unfortunate but I kind of get it. The focus is on simpler, more natural food - but that shows the effect on the last many thousands years too…

The sugars… Oh my!!! It’s new to me but I was aware that there are zillion paleo versions, Hungarian paleo is different from the paleo of a different country etc. But I saw keto with rice too, that was pretty weird. I mean, not a tiny bit of rice that fits. I never saw this <20g keto in Hungarian sites, not like I often read about keto here, we are all about paleo and vegetarianism or just eating whatever I suppose.

Dried dates… Apage Satanas… (I have a problematic relationship with dried dates, if I have any relationship at all, usually I don’t even go near the thing, that works well. But looking at it in a less biased way, it’s still almost pure sugar… That is not necessarily so bad for certain people in certain situations, of course.)

Now I got curious about paleo again, I don’t remember much…
Okay, I have read honey and natural syrups and stevia, xylitol is okay - but in small amounts. I remember reading that from sweet fruits too, fine but not galore. So it’s the same I suppose. I am used to using the word “sweetener” for those weird super sweet ones, mostly and not sugar alcohols… I dislike this as sugar alcohols are sweetener too but what can I do?

I think it is enough for me, I only did paleo for 1 month in the very beginning (with no added sugar. I had xylitol in moderation). I disliked the huge amount of sugar I still ate so I went low-carb instead. Keeping it mostly paleo but I disliked some restrictions. Even keto and carnivore felt less restrictive (at the point when I could do them). While keto doesn’t ban food groups, carnivore takes away desire, making things easier.
I suppose paleo may be great for people who are lucky enough to eat the right amount (and the right food for them) following paleo rules and their own extra personal ones and doesn’t miss the non-paleo items. May work or may not. Not the best diet to try, it cuts out some bad groups just like keto almost do (keto doesn’t fully cut out anything, I always liked that but some groups are unlikely to begin with and impossible in significant amounts. amounts matter very much).

(Edith) #60

That’s the rub with every diet that ends up becoming a “fad” diet. Paleo and even keto start off as ways of eating to remove processed food from the diet and eating more real/whole food, the way nature intended. Then the food industry takes notice and says, “Hey! There are a lot of people following this way of eating. We need to capitalize on this.” And how do they capitalize on it? By making processed food. It may meet the definition of keto (macros) or paleo (ingredients) but it still ends up being some kind of frankenfood. And then the consumer can’t resist trying this new “food” that meets his or her definition of their new eating style.

Then what happens? The diet stops working because people started eating the frankenfood, and then they stop the diet because they say it no longer works for them. Thus they go back to their previous way of eating, the way food manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies prefer.

I would say, in a way, food bloggers are no different. They need those advertisers to sponsor their websites. How do they get more viewers and thus more advertisers? By creating recipes that appeal to people’s sweet tooths while supposedly staying within the framework of the “diet.”