My friend doctor is worried about Colorectal Cancer due to red meat

cancer
(jcshrunked) #1

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I played this podcast In the car with my friend who is Physical Medicine doctor. He got somewhat irritated. And here is what he said “no no. Keto is only good when you are trying to lose weight. It may be true that you will not have coronary artery disease but you may have colorectal cancer instead, they are only talking about studies on one side”

At that point I was like WWRMD (what would Richard Morris Do?) @richard

Is there already a Dedicated Podcast Episode discussing the “other-side” studies and discussing research methodologies by these studies that tells us to Keep Calm and Keto On? @carl

Side story (He did some Keto with me and lost about 35 lbs himself but still has reservations for long term Keto, so he is doing just low carb now)

(Todd Allen) #2

https://chriskresser.com/red-meat-cancer-again-will-it-ever-stop/

(Full Metal KETO AF) #3

Part of the problem is when they blame red meat for causing cancer the people are eating the SAD. They look at the people who eat more meat (and probably a lot more processed foods) and blame the ill effects on the meat. The people who eat less meat are living healthy lifestyles in general and trying to take better care of themselves (less drinking, smoking, reasonable exercise routine, less processed food and sugar). The studies are biased and weak. Most people who go pure carnivore get better gut health and have less polyps than the grain munching fiber freaks. So less polyps is less potential cancer tumors forming. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Brian) #4

I can’t see quite where I was looking but I thought I just read a study a few days ago that suggested that vegans and vegetarians have a HIGHER risk of colorectal cancer than meat eaters. (I think it was a study from the UK.)

FWIW, I have a high-school friend, a lifelong vegetarian that was just diagnosed with stage 4 colorectal cancer. I hated hearing that. She’s one of the sweetest people I’ve ever known.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #5

Dr. Georgia Ede discusses the evidence. Links to the studies are available at the bottoms of her slides.

#6

A few things mixed up here.

A ketogenic diet is not necessarily a red meat diet.

Your physician friend could pursue nutritional ketosis without eating red meat.

If you wanted to spend more time with them to discuss colorectal cancer and red meat associations. You could talk about some wacky sounding topics. Such as the World Health Organisation trading a plant based agenda off a well known brand. You could talk about a 1.17 risk finding being spoken about in terms of a 20% greater risk of cancer, when it is actually an insignificant risk factor. Or chat about the shifting goal posts of processed meats and/or red meats, separated, lumped together as the bias requires.

The worry is probably more risky than the red meat.

(jcshrunked) #7

Thank You :pray:t3:!

(Bunny) #8

If you look at the research it is the resistant starch in the diet or research not the fiber (soluble or insoluble) that prevents colon cancers.

Very moderate protein with resistant starch seems to be the key to feeding the mucosal gut bacteria barrier and keeping it healthy so you can eat meat and not worry about that problem.

The other variable seems to be about keeping the iodine balanced in the human body, what that has to do with colon cancers and other forms of cancers and the gut flora microbiome is still a mystery to me?

It is said iodine can reverse even up to stage 4 cancers, and I’m still wondering how true that is or any of it is?

We need more human case studies to find out what the problem is with meat (if that really is the case?) and colon cancers?

The only one case history study I know about where it was a meat only diet (carnivore) three of them died of various forms of colon cancers including the founder despite good or excellent bio-markers?

But that could also be attributed to iodine deficiencies?

I don’t take that lightly unless I was on a suicide mission?

#9

science please

link please

(Bunny) #10

Phil Escott talks about that here as it relates to breast cancer; “iodine protocol” (I imagine does not only apply to breast cancers?):

Carnivore Diet – Reversing Breast Cancer (SHOCKING PIC WARNING!) – Phil Escott – WHIS 2018.

Category Archives: Carbohydrate Deficiency (i.e. resistant starches)

What is also interesting is a meat only diet without the resistant starches could leave a person susceptible (reducing the density of the mucosal barrier) to H. Pylori infections or ulcerations that could lead to colon cancers or esophageal cancers and ulcers?

Reference Notes:

[1] “…Iodine helps convert thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) to triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4). This conversion is important for the thyroid to function properly. An iodine imbalance can lead to an overactive or underactive thyroid. Around 70 to 80 percent of iodine is found (stored*) in the thyroid gland in the neck. …” …More *[emphasis added]

[2] “…The UIC values indicate that Iranian cancer patients were seriously iodine deficient according to WHO/UNIC EF/IC C IDD, and that this is a suitable index to assess iodine status in Iranians. Daily consumption of salt fortified with iodine or other approaches to increase intake might be effective strategies for prevention or reduction of malignancies. …” …More

[3] Why Did People Take Iodine Pills After Chernobyl Exploded?

[4] “…Iodine deficiency, therefore, may contribute to breast cancer and its progression directly within breast tissue, and secondarily by decreased thyroid function leading to metastasis. …” “…Young women and to a greater extent pregnant women, have lower urinary iodine levels than men of similar age. …” …More

[5] “…How do you produce iodine? Iodine being non polar, has very weak instantaneous dipole induced dipole force of attraction between the molecules, which can be easily broken. This makes iodine volatile. …” …More

(Bob M) #11

Supposedly, breast cancer and iodine have a high incidence together. That is, higher iodine intake is better for breast cancer, but not necessarily all cancers.

From my perspective, beef might be the best meat. It’s relative low in PUFAs for instance (compared to chicken or pork) and high in basically everything you need to survive.

(Bunny) #12

Saturated fats will not work correctly without PUFAS…you cannot avoid PUFAS period! (whatever the animal is eating that your eating you will also be eating, does not matter weather the PUFA goes through you or the animal?)

…again there is hydrogenated PUFAS and saturated fats… and the reasons for which that now have you scared to death of the big PUFA monster!

Omega 6’s and others all work in tandem together with Omega 3’s, Omega 9’s control the lower numbers…

References:

[1] ”… Anthropological evidence suggests that human ancestors maintained a 2:1 w6/w3 ratio for much of history, but in Western countries today the ratio has spiked to as high as 10:1. Since these omega fatty acids can be converted into inflammatory molecules, this dietary change is believed to also disrupt the proper balance of pro- and anti-inflammatory agents, resulting in increased systemic inflammation and a higher incidence of problems including asthma, allergies, diabetes, and arthritis.

Floyd Chilton and colleagues wanted to examine whether theses fatty acids might have other effects, and developed a dietary intervention strategy in which 27 healthy humans were fed a controlled diet mimicking the w6/w3 ratios of early humans over 5 weeks. They then looked at the gene levels of immune signals and cytokines (protein immune messengers), that impact autoimmunity and allergy in blood cells and found that many key signaling genes that promote inflammation were markedly reduced compared to a normal diet, including a signaling gene for a protein called PI3K, a critical early step in autoimmune and allergic inflammation responses.

This study demonstrates, for the first time in humans, that large changes in gene expression are likely an important mechanism by which these omega fatty acids exert their potent clinical effects. …” …More

(Jane) #13

Sorry to hear about your friend. Cancer is so evil.

(bulkbiker) #14

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19279082/ or maybe not…?

(Bob M) #15

All of the evidence I have seen indicates PUFAs are bad. All of it. Granted, all fats contain sat fat, MUFAs, and PUFAs, but to the extent you can limit PUFAs, you should. No seedo oils, no or limited nuts, less chicken and pork, etc.

(jcshrunked) #16

Oh Golly! Thanks so much for this!

(jcshrunked) #17

Thank You @MarkGossage!

(Bunny) #18

I was reading something about that too, it seems high dietary fiber and meat only diets or high protein diets do the same thing which is strange, it seems that in both scenarios it is the lack of resistant starch and maybe more so the quality of the starch consumed and its source?

In the research increasing or decreasing the fiber did nothing until they added the resistant starch? (it was preventing it from occurring)

Fascinating stuff!

You can’t fool those gut microbiome bugs they want to eat and if they don’t eat and starve to death you get cancer? And to make it even clearer resistant starch is a carb or sugar that only your gut bugs eat and digest NOT YOU!

Only thing that interests me even more is the iodine thing?

(Bunny) #19

My question to the simple experiment below is why is the iodine turning black/blue when it hits the starch but not the glucose?

I wonder if this explains how iodine from the thyroid and other parts of the body react with glucose, starch (or resistant starches?) cancer cells and the lactate cycle being converted back into glucose or something like that therein when factoring in the Warburg effect and anaerobic/aerobic respiration and fermentation of fermentable sugars?

Is the color being created by the iodine and starch and what ever molecules are creating that color a factor in cancers survival?

Cancer is sitting around in the body and saying “…not enough iodine to kill me so I think I will stick around and eat whatever?..”

When the iodine hits the glucose nothing happens, but when the iodine hits the starch BOOM chain reaction and then apoptosis cancer cell death?

It is actually more complex than that but just trying to keep it simple with analogies!

Carbohydrates

Plants make compounds called carbohydrates which have a wide variety of uses including foods and fuels. All carbohydrates contain the elements carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. Two of the most common carbohydrates are glucose and starch.

Glucose (C6H12O6) is a simple sugar unit. From the formula, you can see that it contains twice as many hydrogen atoms as carbon atoms. Starch is a much larger, more complicated molecule. Plants produce glucose during the process of photosynthesis and convert it into starch to store energy. Starch is made by joining together many glucose units.

Distinguishing glucose from starch

A test to distinguish starch from glucose is to shine a beam of light through ‘solutions’ of each.

This is also called the Tyndall Beam Effect. Dispersal only happens in starch as the large starch molecules are big enough to affect the light. This is a physical test.

A chemical test for starch is to add iodine solution (yellow/brown) and look for a colour change. In the presence of starch, iodine turns a blue/black colour. It is possible to distinguish starch from glucose (and other carbohydrates) using this iodine solution test. For example, if iodine is added to a peeled potato then it will turn black. …” image

Digestion of carbohydrates

During digestion starch is broken down into glucose. Glucose is small enough to pass through the gut wall but starch cannot. This is done in the body using enzymes (biological catalysts) which work best at body temperature. The glucose molecules can then be transported around the body in the blood stream so that they can be used for the process of respiration. …” …More

(Brian) #20

Thanks, Jane!

I hate to hear things like this happening to people that it doesn’t seem like it should be happening to. Some, like a cousin of mine, who’s smoked like a chimney for nearly 50 years, it’s not exactly a surprise he’s about to check out with lung cancer. It’s the ones who supposedly look after their health and end up with the big C that bothers me the most. And when they happen to be some of the sweetest people I’ve been privileged to meet on this earth, it smarts a little.

Anyway, thank you for the kind words. Truly appreciated.