Maybe a long fast, then?

fasting
extendedfast
vacation
(Hillary ) #101

Stay off the scale girl!!! Lol

(What The Fast?!) #102

@collaroygal NOTHING fits. Everything is tight. This is fat gain. I’m eating way more fat than I was before, definitely enough for my activity level. The one improvement is that I’m not constantly constipated anymore, so that’s positive. But, I’ve been having the opposite problem as well.

I’m going to make some changes and see if I have any improvements over the next few weeks:
1.) incorporate fasting again
2.) get off the digestive enzymes and HCL (I think this is causing diarrhea, so I want to see if increased fat without the supplements will get me to “normal” BM’s.
3.) get back to either crossfit or start heavy lifting, versus so much cycling.
4.) Attempt to stop tracking. I think the stress of tracking makes things worse.

(KCKO, KCFO) #103

Not sure if you have come across this before, but this blog was helpful to me regards the fats.

(What The Fast?!) #104

But adding fat is the only thing that’s made me not be constipated. That’s the crazy part. I was taking 800-1000mg of magnesium plus digestive enzymes and HCL to get me to somewhat normal BM’s before I upped my fat. I’m going to do some experimenting - lower fat a bit (basically cut out fatty coffee in the morning), drop the enzymes/HCL,and see what happens.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #105

I get confused by these conversations. I thought the goal in nutritional ketosis was to eat as much fat as it takes to no longer feel hungry; i.e., to let the body signal when it has enough energy. So this newbie would say that if you’re eating past the point of satiety, that’s not good, and if you’re hungry after meals, eat more fat and let your body sort it out. My own experience is that one of the joys of the keto way of eating is not needing to weigh portions or count calories. I don’t even measure carbs, because I’m trying to eat as few as possible. Everything else just seems to sort itself out from there. Those charts in the article @collaroygal posted are not prescriptions for how we should do things, but rather a description of how things usually work for the average ketonian.

I realize I’ve come late to the conversation, and if you’re one of those people whose metabolisms are so deranged that the normal hormone signals don’t work for you, then just call me Emily, and never mind!

(What The Fast?!) #106

It’s not as simple for everyone, unfortunately. Also, you’re a man and have it much easier. Literally every guy I’ve put on keto has taken to it like a fish in water - no tracking, no weighing, no monitoring protein, and even cheating - and still had great results. I’ve followed keto for 7 months and have GAINED weight.

I’m happy you’ve had success, but all is not well in keto-land for me. :slight_smile:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #107

Thanks for explaining, Andrea, and I’m really sorry you’re having such a struggle. It doesn’t seem fair that it’s so much easier for guys than for gals. But of course your machinery is so much more complicated than ours, it does make sense. It’s still not fair, though.

For what little it’s worth, you do have my sympathy, and I’m rooting for you. People have been exceedingly kind to me on these forums, and I’d like to return the favor. Just know that you are in my thoughts and prayers, and that I admire your fortitude for ketoing on despite all the challenges.

#108

Folks say toss the scale and go by how your clothes fit. That doesn’t work for people like me, who are metric driven. Still, its counterproductive to let the numbers drive you crazy. If you need to track something, I suggest tracking a different metric. Pick something that is correlated to weight but doesn’t elicit such a strong emotional reaction. Ketones, glucose, activity level, HR, or some other variable to serve you as a proxy for weight.

While I track a lot of metrics, I titrate according to my GKI index.

(What The Fast?!) #109

…but none of my clothes fit either. I’m in my “loose jeans” and they are no longer anywhere near loose.

(Khara) #110

So sorry for your frustrations Andrea. This really does suck. I think @collaroygal had a good question above. Also, it seems like last month you were having some success with fasting. Now that you’ve really feasted with your extra fat intake, I wonder if a fast would have an impact, kinda jump start that metabolism? Just a thought. It seems like that has worked for me and some others in the past (really feast and then fast). Also, I scrolled up above and saw a weight of 146. How tall are you? I’m sure you’ve already mentioned but I can’t remember. I’m just wondering what your ideal weight set point must be and how close you are to it.
Anyway, lots of support to you although I know that doesn’t really help. :neutral_face::confounded::triumph: --> :upside_down_face::slightly_smiling_face::smile:

(What The Fast?!) #111

I was up to 157 yesterday. I haven’t been this heavy in probably 15 years. I’m doing a 60 hour fast right now - I have a couple girls coming to town for a girls weekend so I wanted to fast before that.

As far as the FBFP program, she “eases in” to ketosis. The first week you’re eating 80-100 carbs. I tried to follow it but it was emotionally very difficult. I backed off the carbs in week 2, back to a normal keto level. Her program is supposed to go- week 1, 80-100, week 60-80, week 3 40-60.

(What The Fast?!) #112

Fasting is getting easier…though I think I’ve got more fat on my body to pull from, so maybe that’s why! :sob::joy:

(What The Fast?!) #113

Can you tell me more about this? What did you do specifically?

#114

Are you asking what I did specifically to gain 24 pounds, or what I did to lose it?

(What The Fast?!) #115

to lose it :slight_smile: I know that ZC made you gain it. I gained a couple lbs from ZC but only did it for a month.

#116

After gaining 24 pounds in 18 weeks on ZC, I knew I had to switch gears so I very slowly started incorporating carbs back in. I started off with just peeled cucumbers, then added salsa, then other carbs, and even an occasional pastry after a month or so, until I was up to about 100 grams a day.

And I counted calories! At first when I added carbs back in I wanted to keep my cals at 1700. I figured I had been eating a hell of a lot more cals than that on ZC so 1700 would be a reduction. Eventually I reduced it to 1450. On top of counting cals I began walking 5-6 miles a day and doing calisthenics 3 times a week.

It was about this time I found an article about ghrelin, the hunger hormone, and how we can re-train it. A light went off in my head. I’ve always had what I thought was hypoglycemia, and felt I had to eat every three hours to keep my blood sugar stable. After reading the article I wondered if all those years I had trained my ghrelin to make me hungry every three hours. So I tested it out. I ate only three meals a day. If I felt hunger inbetween meals I would occupy myself, and the hunger would go away. I didn’t pass out or die if I didn’t eat! It was actually quite easy to keep my cals at 1450 after I re-trained my ghrelin.

So I did that for 10 weeks, and in that 10 weeks I lost a whopping 3 pounds! I also got the flu twice (I wasn’t sick on ZC once) and in the tenth week I got pleurisy (this was April 20, 2017).

On April 21, 2017, I decided to go back to ZC but to do it my own way instead of the way the vets on Zeroing in on Health insisted it must be done. This time I counted my calories on ZC, and aimed for 1500 a day. I didn’t worry about fat and protein ratios. Right away I started losing weight and inches. Then I found the facebook page Zero Carb Doc from Dr. Paul Mabry who advocated high-fat, moderate protein ZC, and incorporating IF with ZC. I decided to give it a shot.

And of course I got the keto flu and my exercising went down the toilet!

It was some time in May or June that I found the 2ketodudes podcast, this forum, and Dr. Fung’s “The Obesity Code”. I began switching up my IF and my cals every day, never doing the same thing for more than 2 days in a row. I also tried EF and actually hiit 72 hours once.

Some time in August I read a post here from someone who had slowly increased the amount of daily cals he ate while maintaining weight. I was eating an average of 1475 at the time and wanted to increase it to 1800. So I kept switching up my cals every day depending on how hungry I was and switching up my IF, but also increasing my average cals by about 700 cals per week (100 per day). I am now averaging about 1650-1700 cals per day.

After my last 3-day EF which was a fat fast with about 300 cals of fat a day, I hit my goal weight of 118. I gained two of it back but I keep losing inches.

I don’t really exercise per se. I play tennis once in a while, play my drums a few times a week, walk the dogs, and if I feel like it I go to the gym. I’ve started playing golf too, which I really enjoy.

Before I began ZC the first time I had been a size 2 and I was TOFI. My goal had been to gain muscle and lose fat. What I gained was 24 pounds. I grew to a size 10. My body fat grew to 37%. Sure, my heart palpitations stopped, I felt calmer and more confident, and never got sick on ZC, but the fat gain was too much for me. This time on ZC, doing it my way, I have all the health benefits of ZC but have lost weight instead of gained. Though I’ve lost only 17 pounds of the 24 I gained, I’m back down to my size 2 which, in my mind, means I’ve gained muscle and lost fat.

My goal now is to maintain my weight at 118-120 (I’m 5’2"), increase my BMR so that I can comfortably eat an average of 1800 cals a day, and have about 23-24% body fat. (I’m at 26% currently). I plan to achieve this by continuing to slowly increase my BMR, doing IF and EF, and switching it up all the time. Oh, and I’m letting my body decide my ratio of fat to protein now.

I don’t know if what worked for me would work for anyone else. I don’t know if it will continue working for me. I only know it’s working for me right now.

I totally feel your frustration @KetoLikeaLady. I how this awfully long post helps in some way. If nothing else, maybe it just shows that it’s best to take in as much info as you need and then apply it in a way that suits you as an individual.

#117

@MelTar and @KetoLikeaLady
I’m partway through Mark Sisson’s new book and there’s one theme that he’s been talking about for a while but that’s finally sinking in for me: in the long-term, for the best health and aging outcomes, we’re better off not just burning less glucose but also less fuel overall. In his view, the magic of keto is not only that it allows us to get off of the glucose merry-go-round (with all of its oxidative stress and cravings etc etc) but also that it helps to build more efficient metabolisms overall.

There’s a conflict between what we think of as having a good metabolism (burning through plenty of fuel) and what in nature would be a good metabolism (thriving and active on less fuel). The latter is probably much better for our overall health and longevity, so maybe a low BMR is actually not that bad. He personally is delighted that at this point his caloric intake is way below what you would expect for how active he is. I don’t really track calories so I don’t remember the numbers but it sounds like a typical day of food for him is a large salad at lunch - with some kind of protein and a generous fatty dressing - and a small steak and vegetables at night, with maybe a glass of wine or a square of dark chocolate. For someone who’s almost athlete-level active that’s not really that much food, and he’s very happy with that (I mean, he’s happy with his food and loves it, but he’s also happy to have what he thinks of as a slower-burning engine, because he wants it to last a while).

(Adam Kirby) #118

I’m always somewhat surprised when he posts his food, it’s less than I would guess for a man of his build and activity. Yet no one would say, yeah that Mark Sisson, definitely looks like he has a slow metabolism. His “minimum effective dose” of eating is an interesting idea.

(KCKO, KCFO) #119

Thanks so much for posting what worked for you. This sounds just awesome to me. I am maintaining my goal weight, minus 3-5 lbs depending on the day. I am thinking I might try some of this to get a bit further down. As I am an older female, my goal was the top of the normal range for my height, 5’3". But I wouldn’t mind being closer to 130 than 140 :).
I got here by following Megan and Dr. Fung’s IF and EF protocols. I did not try ZC, 20 net grams was my lowest and I worked my way up to about 50 grams per day of carbs, eating sufficient protein, the rest fats.

I might try some of this and see what happens.

#120

@collaroygal I’m 55 and I’ve read that post-menopausal it’s a good idea to have a few extra pounds. Before I began ZC I had been at the low end of my normal range for several years. Looking at old photos I see I was a little too thin. 118-120 is roght in the middle so I think I’d like to stay here and improve my body fat to lean ratio.