Macros calculating and deficit or no

(eat more) #1

i’ve recalculated my macros literally (not figuratively lol) 6x with various methods/calculators/deficits…my soul is telling me to do it again…

originally i used the formula in lyle mcdonald’s book The Ketogenic Diet (that i’ve had for nearly 20 years) which is basic…scale weight x a multiplier of 12 for a 20% deficit, the anklr calculator, the ketogains calculator, etc etc…all with different results…

i was reading a different “community” and they are 99% CICO…some in a 50+% deficit…which could be fine depending on bf% and once fat adapted but horrifying and counterproductive to me for ppl just starting out

on to my question…
so being that keto isn’t CICO…when using any method of calculation prior to fat adaptation do you set your macros at a deficit?

i apologize if this is stated somewhere and i just didn’t find it with a search

i feel like i need higher targets but that could just be me being greedy…but also i feel like being in too great a deficit can actually cause “muscle/organ adaptation” and not fat adaption

i love keto and don’t want to get in my own way or cause further damage

yep i’m an overthinker/talker :blush:

TLDR: do you calculate macros at a deficit

#2

Since you seem to be concerned with detailed calculations, I’ll get a little more detailed.

It’s more about the absolute grams of carbohydrate and protein and eating fat to satiety.

These forums recommend keeping carbohydrates below 20 grams and protein to 0.5 to 1.5 grams per kilogram of lean body mass depending on your level of activity.

After that it’s a matter of eating enough fat to avoid gluconeogenesis by considering that your body can only use ~30 calories per pound of bodyfat, so knowing your bodyfat percentage would be important.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/c/newbies/getting-started

(Patrick B.) #3

Aside from what BillJay said, I would argue that Keto is CICO, of sorts. Your macros are just defining the calories.

You shouldn’t eat more protein than you need but you should be eating all the protein you need, right? So any deficit you have would come from carbs and fat. Carbs are already at a deficit in that we shoot for 20 carbs or less. So any other deficit has to come from fat. If I raise my deficit from 2 lbs a loss a week to maintenance, it gives me more fat to eat. As a matter of fact, on the Ankerl calculator, the fat is where they have you decide on the deficit. i’ve chosen 24%.

(eat more) #4

maybe i don’t speak the same language as ya’ll :joy:

yes i am “concerned” with the details…weird right? science?

i read the getting started…saw nothing about deficit only which calculators are recommended

my protein is .8 per pound of lean body mass (the only current method of fat testing i have access to is bioimpedence which i don’t find to be accurate but that’s what i’m going with) and i’ve just cut back weight training from 4-6x/week to 3x/week

carbs at 20g

i’m just trying to find the sweet spot to complete fat g without being too low or too high…i can’t currently rely on hunger or satiety signals at this time because i can easily ignore both…

i’ll see what the points y’all have made give me :blush:

#5

Yeah @mikki, been there done that and bought the T-shirt! Unlike most others I log everything into MFP in order to keep myself accountable, otherwise I too easily undereat or look back and find that I’ve devoured everything in sight. For many it does tend to average out as far as calories are concerned, but I estimate I’ve gained and lost roughly 500 pounds since adolescence and I’m currently 52 years old, and that happened with a lot self-denial and not averaging. It was only after going keto that I got off that rollercoaster.

So, a 140 lb person with 20.5% bodyfat would have 28.7 lbs of fat and at a rate of 31.5, that would be 904 calories per day from bodyfat.

(140 lb * 0.205 * 31.5) = 904 calories maximum from bodyfat
(20 carbs * 4 calories/carb) = 80 calories from carbohydrates
(140 lb / 2.2 kg) * (1.000 - 0.205) * 0.8 grams/kg * 4 calories/protein) = 162 calories from protein

904 + 80 + 162 = 1,146 calories from eating no fat (not recommended), rounding up to 1,150 calories available from carbs and protein from food and fat from bodyfat.

Assuming 2,000 calories per day required for maintenance with no fat would result in a daily deficit of 850 calories and without the fat, not very ketogenic for most people, but undoubtedly some people will do fine on this Atkins-style diet.

The problem is that all this math doesn’t take into consideration the hormonal differences between eating the SWD and switching to LCHF/ketosis and people like Gary Taubes and Nina Teicholz report about studies that one pound of bodyfat doesn’t often correspond to a 3,500 calorie deficit, so at what point do we ignore the math and just add fat until we stop feeling hungry?

However, I could see using this to set an absolute lower limit on daily calories to avoid catabolizing lean body mass for energy.

(Alex Dipego) #6

Keto increases burn. Staying at maintenance on keto as in shifting from a SAD 2000cal to a keto 2000cal is like dropping your cals to 1400 on a SAD. I think that’s what you’re looking for.

(Blyss (Old @Charmaine)) #7

When I started keto, I loosely followed macros only to see the percentages and get a feel for what ‘more’ fat looked like. I really ate to satiety and gradually increased my fat intake to see how that would work with me. At some point, I stopped taking macros seriously because it’s not something I want to do for the rest of my life. I’ve had to learn to really listen to my body and understand if I’m hungry or just want to eat. Really, after some time, the macros take care of themselves, meaning I eat less volume of food now and my macros naturally fell. And I think it’s safe to say that tends to happen with most of us at some point.

Macro calculators will drive you batty, hence one of the reasons I just stopped using them and went rogue. LOL But seriously, I just suggest seeing how you respond; eat to fuel your day. Macros calculators don’t accurately tell you that.

(Alex Dipego) #8

To take it a step further I take my carbs which for me is 0~5 since I’m ZC, but before I used 30.

30 total I didn’t subtract fiber.
My protein which is roughly 80-120, though bumped up to 150ish now due to training days being harder but off days are lower.

Then fat.

So my metabolic rate plus my activity to maintain I need 2800ish cals.

Let’s say a high day for me so 30g carbs is 120cal. 150protein is 600cal. That puts me at 720 total before fat. That leaves me 2080 cals or 231g of fat.

Realistically for me I’m ZC so I get an extra 13g of fat so 244g. That is mostly one meal. I’ll have 25g of fat in my morning coffee to start and feast later.

(eat more) #9

@BillJay thank you for taking the time and effort to break it down :grin:

i suspect i’m going to find that i’ve been undereating…being task oriented is only good if you’re tasks are appropriate lol
maybe someday we will both only track because we like to
i’ve always been iffy on the 3500 concept but it’s shoved down every orifice you can think of in gym culture…maybe i should stop going to the gym! just kidding but now i’m the crazy little blonde chick that squats and doesn’t eat carbs lol

@Abrane so possibly no deficit…we’ll see.
i was closer to maintenance before i had the brilliant idea to see what ppl on the internet were saying/doing with keto and got b-slapped with CICO and that you NEED as large of a deficit that you can manage without passing out, set your activity to sedentary even if you’re a marathon runner, and that keto only works because the fat lets you eat less (even at the expense of your health and goals), blah blah blah

@Charmaine-OLD eating to fuel my day would be amazing if i knew how to do that lol
who doesn’t know how to eat? this girl! so for now i track…i may not even mind if it’s forever

i’ve “done” keto, paleo, primal, atkins, the zone, protein power, eat this -> not that, and south beach…all without tracking (not to mention a bunch of other “diets”)…i didn’t lose weight or fat…all that really happened was i stopped eating bread. :joy:

i came to keto after 6+ months of just eating (or not eating) whatever i wanted (rebellion…ice cream cake for lunch…yep) after the prior 3-6 months of IIFYM…which meant tortilla chips for dinner…because it “fit my macros”. (true “meals”…all while going to the gym lol)

keto has vastly vastly vastly improved my adulting…at least when it comes to eating lol

thank you all for your time and replies, i very much appreciate it (hopefully you made it this far lol)

(Karen) #10

Wow! Where do I go and how can I get to where it tells me how much protein I can have? You mentioned you et .8 protein. Is that a good amount?

(eat more) #11

the standard for figuring macros is:
carbs 20g
protein 1-1.5g per kg LBM (lean body mass)
fat “the rest” aka to satiety

there is another formula for figuring protein which is .8g per pound of LBM

i’ve done both formulas :blush:

#12

Start around 1 g/kg LBM and see if it’s working, adjust up or down from there depending on needs.

(Davey B ) #13

I like the KISS principle on the macro thing - Keeping it Simple,… but that doesn’t mean I’m getting it right!

I weight 82kg, 15% BF, 183cm, Athletic, Keto since October 2016, almost 1 year, Feeling all the great effects of the keto lifestyle, DON’T WANT TO LOSE ANYMORE WEIGHT, and here’s how a typical day goes for me:

Carbs are max 20g (from greens, small amounts of berries, incidental in nuts) :slight_smile:
Protein, likely too high, at 110-140g/day! Maybe some gluconeogenesis going on (?) :worried:
Fat typically comes in between 170-220g/day. It seems I can never get enough to demonstrate the popular 75/20/5 ratio! :blush:

So my ratios may fall in the 60/35/5 range. :thinking:

Q1: Should I be concerned about eating too little fat, and too much protein?? That extra fat often seems kinda hard to come by!
Q2: Any tricks to upping the fat while on the road (I work in China and Southeast Asia), like butter in coffee, etc.

Love the Forums! Great to learn from, and experience through others
Regards,
Dave

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #14

Is there a way to figure out what your lean body mass is from your BMI or something? I suppose I could just assume it’s only 60 or 70 percent of my full weight?

(Davey B ) #15

If you have one of those scales that measures fat content then you can do (1-fat content)*actual weight. If 15% fat content, then use: 85% x scale weight for lean body. Nothing is perfect in any case - just a guide for starters, then you can adjust as you go :smile:

Good luck with it!
Dave