Lowering Protein


(Running from stupidity) #41

At the risk of being labeled - again - as a science denier[1], yep.

yes I’m out of likes again. stupid software

[1] Not by Mary :slight_smile:


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #42

Still, I can see a potential limiting factor being that protein intake is insufficient to provide enough nitrogen for muscle building. And while the body can indeed synthesize most of the amino acids it needs, three of the BCAA’s needed for muscle growth—leucine, iso-leucine, and valine—are essential in the diet, because they cannot be synthesized by human beings.


#43

Yeah - thing is - to get over 30g means 4 eggs or 3 w/ cheese - a hefty breakfast, and if I eat an early meal, I prefer things quick n’ light alas.


#44

Yeah - I surely agree!

I just want a definitive answer so that I’m doing the right thing when I do have an early meal because he seems to say that less than 30 g is just a waste :rofl:

I’ve not been able to do resistance training for some months now - and am wanting to pay attention to caring for my muscle mass primarily through food right now (at age 53, not IR).

When seen through an ancestral or pre-industrial lens, feasting and gorging on protein was generally a holiday thing - not a daily thing, with lots of variabilities. I am of the opinion that fat-adapted non-IR folks need LESS protein than the food industrial science has sold us, not more.

Also, Layman doesn’t study this stuff within the context of ketosis and IF which change everything!!!

I am so confused though, with so many conflicting PhDs and MDs


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #45

I would say that when the experts all contradict one another, we probably shouldn’t worry too much, and should just do what seems best. Eventually the science will get sorted out, but till then, let’s just KCKO.


#46

I watched the video interview many months back - it’s very focused on bodybuilding contexts but then Lyon applies it to all. She’s integrated medicine, not functional medicine, so, much less emphasis on giving the GI tract breaks or naturally building enzymes.

My thing is that gorging on protein for three meals a day isn’t very ancestral - it’s fat-adapted IF that is.

Also, the privileged modern excessive intake of food (even good keto food) - an industrial culture of vast grocery stores and buffet restaurants and fast food without the bread - creates a huge diversion of energy into digestion rather than the natural highs (in my non-IR experience) that come from the hormones of fat-adapted IF and small eating windows. :sparkles:

Have never been a breakfast person - and many traditional peasants and eastern folks aren’t large breakfast folks - but am definitely a spices person :rofl:

Another interesting thing is that mTOR stimulation is not necessarily a fabulous thing - as longevity research has shown reduced food intake via IF and yearly EF fasting to apparently be pivotal for robustly healthy extended elder years (as written about by keto researcher Christi Vlad).


(Running from stupidity) #47

No, let’s not.


(Karen) #48

Mtor vs sarcopenia decisions, decisions.


(John) #49

This morning’s breakfast for me was just over 40g protein - a 2-egg omelet with spinach, portabello mushrooms, and parmesan cheese, with 2 strips of bacon. A good 10g of that came from the spinach and mushrooms.

That was actually a bit more than I usually do - sometimes it’s 2 eggs and 2 strips of bacon, or just the eggs.


#50

Mtor for me for sure :muscle:


(Todd Allen) #51

Muscle growth via the mTOR pathway is basically providing the body such an abundance of nutritional substrate to signal that it is ok to squander it on metabolically expensive unneeded muscle. Hard activation of our muscles at our limit of strength tells the body we need more muscle and to prioritize muscle building even when amino acid supply is constrained.

We have much flexibility, we can fast for long periods of time without consuming any essential amino acids. If we do so our bodies will readily supply essential amino acids by breaking down muscle while minimizing fat burn. Or when muscles are used in a way that signals they are needed, they can be largely spared for quite some time while fasting as the body recycles protein from other sources even though it costs us more of our precious fat.

Muscle growth via mTOR is an important strategy we all should employ to some degree. But it has potential drawbacks such as fueling cancer growth, inhibiting fat catabolism (only a drawback when you have more than enough fat) and possibly sustaining or exacerbating insulin resistance. The opposite strategy fasting is also important and likewise should be used some although too much of it can kill us. How much time we should spend at the extremes of feasting and fasting versus somewhere in the middle is a balancing act we each need to figure out for ourselves.


(Adam Kirby) #52

Sarcopenia is a known problem of aging, mTOR is a theoretical one.


(Doug) #53

Good stuff, Todd - always appreciate your input and take on things, in this case really fascinating things. Here’s to a good 2019…


#54

Well, I spent some time revisiting the menus of the Drs. Eades as well as Phinney & Volek - and they all have skewed protein distribution, with biggest protein serving the final meal of the day etc., and with proven case studies of successful body recomposition and lean mass + functional health recovery based in LCHF/keto (or the keto cusp).

I think since the physiology of the fat-adapted & fasting is its own functionality, there is no way that the aforementioned Dr. Layman (who does not work within the LCHF/keto paradigm) can speak for the fat-adapted among us. And, seems his conclusions that 30g protein per meal is required is predicated on the sad Standard American Diet and its many derangements, which probably do improve with higher protein each meal,(due to satiation and perhaps some natural carb reduction thereby for some).

So, now I’m not confused anymore, and back to my regularly scheduled program, ie, a well formulated yet intuitively random IF, Keto-tasty way of life.

After all, in the last 18 months, I’ve lost quite a lot of inches despite being a 50+ female - I sat down and listed it all out for myself last night, very impressive. I’ve turned around the midlife yearly fat gain train - and that’s HUGE. I’ve also really been enjoying BDNF-fueled brain rejuvenations. So, I’m going to keep on doing what I’ve been doing - an eating window of no more than 8 hours and often less than 6, with a mix of IF days and feasting days - and some healthy carb flux - and a SKEWED protein eating pattern lol. Antifragility, in other words.

:herb::avocado::steakcake::sheep: :coconut:


(mole person) #55

Before anyone could label you a science denier they’d have to show the actual science. I found this “finding” suspect when I first read it a few days ago and went down the rabbit hole trying to find the study that shows this. In short, there isn’t one. First of all this guy isn’t even reporting on his own research and secondly he’s completely misreporting the research of others. My guess is that he’s funded by big dairy which has a stake in getting people to drink loads of whey protein shakes. That video is from a dairy conference.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #56

Whey to go! :rofl: (Sometimes I just slay me!) :rofl:


(mole person) #57

Slayed by Whey! You’re a poet as well as a comedian. :grin:


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #58

I’m a poet
and don’t know it.
But my feet show it—
they’re Longfellows! :grin: