Question - if your goal is weight loss, how does one lower protein while maintaining calories without adding too much fat? It’s a conundrum.
I’m asking because too much protein can cause body odor, etc. Too much fat will cause you not to use your own stores. Too few calories over time can mimic starvation and slow metabolism.
What’s the balance? Fasting and organ meats are not the answers I want to hear - lol.
Discuss?
Just FYI, on PC and Android (my platforms) you can change the “normal” button below the thread to “tracking” or “watching” to achieve the same end.
If calories = Carb grams (x4) + Protein grams (x4) + Fat grams (x9) then…
I don’t see how it’s possible to lower protein much without adding some fat, if maintaining calories is the goal. You can trade out a gram of protein for a gram of fat and gain five calories but that might add up to much more fat than you desire.
I think breaking up patterns of low calories might be something to consider to avoid slower metabolism. Letting loose and eating slightly more than your macros allow for 1 or 2 days a week might convince your body, metabolic slowdown is not necessary. I’ve experimented with this a bit the past week, and I can say that it definitely helped my hunger hormones.
With lots of weight loss, quickly, it’s totally natural for hunger to increase. I would find my mouth watering for something to eat for large portions of the day and by eating a few larger meals during the week, that hunger seems much more manageable on lower calorie days.
Don’t lower protein and smell? Where do you get the protein causes body odour from? That’s a new one on me… you sure it isn’t just early onset ketosis?
Well, I’m not @atomicspacebunny so I’m not good at quoting multiple sources but I can do a Google search and many people (also on this forum) have talked about an ammonia-like smell in the urine or sweat from eating excess protein. I’ll notice it sometimes so I’ll search on how to reduce protein and preserve calories without adding a ton of fat and no one seems to have an answer.
Another thread just started elsewhere is talking about using fat stores when everyone here talks about adding fat to stay full.
I guess I shall remain forever puzzled.
(And just because you’ve never heard of it doesn’t mean it’s not a “thing”.)
I found this article about protein needs to be a good read.
https://blog.virtahealth.com/how-much-protein-on-keto/
More information:
Hmmm. The body odor protein issue is new to me as well. I tend to lose weight quicker and more comfortably with a higher amount of protein. I haven’t noticed a difference in the way I smell. Nor has my wife or daughters. Quite the contrary. When I was eating a SAD I was a smelly mess. Mostly from gas. 
I generally eat about 400g of protein daily in the form of red meat. I train with weights 5 days a week for 2 hours and really don’t sweat that much, at least compared to others. No excessive BO either, though my urine sometimes does smell stronger.
That is only temporary it is a transient process as discussed by Dr. Phinney[1][2]… Sweet smelling urine may be a sign of diabetes?
I was holding a conversation with a very strict out-their vegan once and obviously he was not from America; he stated “…You Americans smell like meat…” lol, 
I really think that, that is not really the case, people from different cultures do have a distinct body aroma!
One little comical thing my grandmother use to do when I was little is slap the flabby skin (no fat) under her arm, she use to say “look muscles in reverse,” I now realize that is possibly from excessive protein intake[4][5] and the high carb SAD diet and also her pre-diabetic condition?
Footnotes:
[1] Serum Uric Acid as a Biomarker for Keto-adaptation - Stephen Phinney, MD, PhD, Jeff Volek, PhD: “… An intriguing potential indicator of the body’s progress into keto-adaptation is the response of the serum uric acid content after initiation of a ketogenic diet. In healthy normal humans with initially normal blood uric acid levels, their values typically double in the first week of nutritional ketosis. Although this phenomenon was reported over half a century ago, its cause remains poorly understood. Some medical experts assume that carbohydrate restriction causes more purines from nucleic acids to break down to uric acid, either due to increased death of cells or from a higher dietary protein intake (i.e., meat containing nucleic acids). For reasons we won’t detail, neither of these mechanisms stands up to data in the published literature. …”
[2] “…Bottom line: A well-formulated ketogenic diet is not a contraindication in people with a history of gout. But once through the keto-adaptation phase, consistency with the diet is advised in order to avoid repeated swings in blood uric acid level caused by going in and out of nutritional ketosis …” …More
[4] How much protein is excessive? How much protein is enough? - Dr. Jason Fung
[5] Autophagy: Intermittent fasting protein cycling (IFPC): “…The next piece of reclaiming your youth is the protein cycling or PC part. PC is the practice of alternating between periods of low protein consumption and normal to high protein consumption. The reason you want to under-eat protein on some days of the week is similar to why you want to start intermittent fasting – it comes back to the dance between glucagon and insulin. Lowered protein intake means lowered insulin levels and higher glucagon. And recall that higher glucagon means autophagy is active. Since your body can’t make its own protein, if you don’t eat it (or eat enough of it) then it’s forced into recycling its existing proteins. This recycling activity is a fundamental task of the autophagy process. …” - Naomi Whittel
[9] How to Cut Fat on a Ketogenic or Low Carb Diet (and Why You Might Want To) - Tuit Nutrition - Amy Berger
The answer for me has pretty much been, “eat real food”, let the macros fall where they may.
To me, the carbs are about the only ones I purposely keep low. Otherwise, it’s just a matter of eating real foods. Eggs are a wonderful combination of protein and fat in a nice tidy little package. A variety of meats and fish give me good protein and fat, (plus I do use a little dairy but not nearly as much as I used to, probably more of a condiment than a food group) and I think having a variety there is a good thing. I eat some veggies, too, mostly non-starchy, and some berries but mostly on the weekends. Occasionally, I’ll even have a sweet potato but that’s more of a special treat than a regular item. I know, they’re carby.
I’ve never had a lot of interest in compartmentalizing my food to the last particle. I also don’t pay a lot of attention to heavy supplements. But I do like a rather large variety of real foods which I eat pretty much as much as I want of.
When I’ve had plateaus, I’ve taken a closer look at what I’m taking in and have at times figured out that I was taking in too much or too little of one thing or another. Early on, I wasn’t eating enough protein. (Spent a lot of time as a vegan and vegetarian and was filling up on veggies and ignoring the protein. Fixed that.) Recently, with another plateau, I took another hard look and came to the conclusion that a half pint of HWC a day was too much, and that’s about what I had been doing. Quit that and changed up how I make coffee. Weight going back down again.
I wonder how many people make this harder than it has to be. (?) Maybe it really is harder for some, not trying to say it isn’t. Either way, I hope you find what works for you.
I’m with you.
I wonder how many people make this harder than it has to be.
A few, yeah.
I’m pretty trim, always Juggling with 5 pounds to lose up-and-down. The way I do it is I go on the Dukan diet for 7 days (protine, no fat, puts me into fat loss )and then go back to 1200 - 2000 calories on Keto ( I weigh each day to see what is ok for me to eat). That’s how I stay small. I do not have diabetes and this works really well for me and I’m never hungry but I don’t do it over 7 days usually about 4 days.
Most keto people would not agree with this but you have to do the N=1 and see what works for you.
Yeah, except I wrote this post to potentially find an answer to an issue or two so whatever works for you doesn’t work for everyone. I’ll listen to the podcast suggested and read Bunny’s links. I’ll see if I can get a women’s perspective since I believe the things I’m talking about may be specific. Protein needs, fat, whatever - one should not assume one size fits all.
Suggesting that I’m making this harder than it should be is a tad bit patronizing.
I read through bunny’s post as well. I think Amy burger has the right guidance. And for some keto is easy Peezy, but not for me. I have lost weight but it’s glacially slow.
