Lower Fats Once Adapted?


(Nick) #1

Keto for about 6 weeks. Have hit a stall. I eat TONS of fat a day… I put it on everything.

I believe I have read somewhere that lowering fats once your adapted is usually wise. That it’s good to keep them high at first and then start to slow down with the butter, etc.

My question is… It seems like my body isn’t burning STORED fat, because I’m feeding it so much exogenous fat. I’m not doing enough exercise for it to tap into the fat stores. Why would it if it doesn’t need to, right? It seems like now that my body knows how to burn fat for fuel, I should lower my fat intake and rely on my stored fat to provide the energy. Thus helping me burn the fat off my body and not what I just ate.


(John) #2

Yes.


(Mark Rhodes) #3

Nick try this link

And welcome to the forums. One of the things that make the forums so great is the ability to search. In the future give it a try.


(Nick) #4

Why is this not talked about more? I’ve read tons on this forum about people hitting stalls, etc. and the response is always to continue doing what you’re doing and trust the process. Sounds like something that should be pushed pretty hard if it’s the solution to this problem.


#5

Because it’s an oversimplification. Your body is still only going to burn its own fat if your insulin levels are low and you’re not eating. Meaning you still have to eat fat so you can go longer periods between meals. You don’t go “low fat,” you just don’t need to pile them on like when you start off. Telling newbies to “back off on fat” seems to send a wrong message often.


(Nick) #6

Gotcha. That’s helpful. Do you think at only 6 weeks I’m ready to back off or is this the time that is crucial for me to load it on?

I am still a bit confused on this to be honest. I guess a good question/example to help me understand would be…
If I were going for a run, would it be best to eat coconut oil / load up on fat beforehand? Or eat zero fat beforehand so that I can burn my stored fat for energy during the run?

I see a lot of people talking about eating coconut oil pre workout or even bulletproof coffee… this doesn’t make much sense to me if the objective of exercising is to burn stored fat.


(Carl Keller) #7

It’s confusing to newbies to hear: eat lots of fat, no eat less fat. The whole process can be overwhelming when you first begin.


(Nick) #8

It doesn’t seem that confusing to me to be honest. At least not confusing enough to be putting misinformation out there.

It seems like the protocol should be explained that you load up on fat for 6-8 weeks and then lower fat once your adapted or hit a stall. I rarely see that suggested from people but it sounds like that’s what you’re supposed to do? I’m not trying to sound like a jerk I just don’t quite understand why that’s not pushed harder.


#9

Because newbies are still scared of fats and are in such a rush to lose weight that they want to do everything right here and now. We got newbies trying 30-day fasts out of the starting gate because people told them fasting will help lose weight. If you tell them to cut down on fats after X weeks, they’ll reach the conclusion “if I eat no fats, then my body will take everything it needs from my fat,” which isn’t how it works.


(Scott) #10

I think the key is to make sure you are fully fat adapted. I waited six months and had already been in a 3 month stall before I “slightly” decreased my fat at breakfast. I cut out MCT oil, Heavy whipping cream and cheese in my eggs and one of two breakfast meats. I am getting a little movement on the scale now. If you cut to much you may get hungry and start snacking. I just now thought about it. I think my stall coincided with my fat adaptation. I didn’t get fully adapted until three months on keto. I could feel it in my morning runs.


(Carl Keller) #11

If it makes you feel any better, I didn’t know until my 7th or 8th week and I suffered absolutely zero harm.

I don’t think people intentionally withhold this tip. I know I’ve repeated it at least 50 times, but rarely to new members because I know they have a lot on their plate (pun intended).


#12

I lowered everything after being fat adapted, not just the fats. Lowered protein and less fiber(daily carbs) also. This is mostly related to the energy output(in my lifestyle). If I need energy for longer periods for different activities I don’t mince around worrying about how much fat I eat. I eat what I need. For regular periods and intervals or day to day now compared to how I was one year ago, yes, my fat (and portions of everything else) have decreased significantly as has my appetite of course or desire/need to eat.


#13

Why are you eating so much fat every day if you’re trying to lose weight? Are you hungry?


(Nick) #14

? Because that’s what’s preached on here. Eat fatty meats… tons of butter… coconut oil… whipping cream… mct oil… fat bombs… just to name a few things. It’s is conveyed that fat consumption does not attribute to weight gain. And that it actually contributes to weight loss.


(John) #15

This site is geared much more towards people dealing with extreme obesity or type 2 diabetes, and not so much towards weightlifters trying to get shredded.

The advice you see “preached” depends on both who is doing the preaching, and who is sitting in the pews.

You should only be eating enough to avoid being hungry, and to get adequate nutrition. The only time you would typically be eating tons of fat is when you first get started, to get your body shifted over into fat-burning. Once you are in lipolysis, you want to burn the fat on your body, not the fat from your food intake.

Unless you are looking for something other than fat loss, in which case you would want your intake to provide your body’s fuel needs.


(Mark Rhodes) #16

and it does. Take Richard’s point of view Why we stall
and stall is usually recognized at 6 months to a year not 6 weeks.

It took you years to get this sick. Not fat. SICK. It seems to me you might want to be a little more patient. With that in mind also read Carl’s experience of adding fats here I'm losing weight again after a 1.5 year stall


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

@NickTunes We get caught between two paradigms of weight loss: the first is that the only thing that matters is your caloric intake, that all calories are the same. The second takes into account the hormonal effects of different types of food, and a whole complex of mechanisms by which the human body regulates itself.

The science behind a well-formulated ketogenic diet is based on the second model. Since insulin is the fat-storage hormone, the purpose of the diet is to lower insulin levels enough to give the body acess to its fat stores. Since carbohydrate is long chains of glucose molecules, and glucose in the bloodstream is what raises insulin levels, we advise keeping eating as little carbohydrate as possible.

Protein is protein, and the weight we want to lose is fat weight, not muscle, bone, or organ weight, so we keep our protein intake at a level that will preserve our lean tissue. Usually we can just continue eating it at the same level as before. Protein has an effect on insulin, about half that of carbohydrate, but we have to have it, so the insulin effect is a wash (we need some insulin anyway, or we will starve to death).

So where are all the calories that we need going to come from, now that we have eliminated all the carbohydrate calories we used to eat? Well, from fat, of course! Fat stimulates insulin at a negligible rate, so it is a safe source of calories.

But in the context of low carbohydrate, the next consideration is caloric intake. The body responds to the amount of calories we give it by either increasing the metabolic rate (in times of abundant food), decreasing the metabolic rate (in times of famine), or switching from dietary intake to the fat and protein reserves and leaving metabolic rate alone (in times of fasting, say when the mastodon meat has run out and it’s time to go hunt down another meat source).

So if you don’t give yourself enough calories, your body is going to start conserving your fat store, to make it through the famine. This is why we tell people who want to lose weight to eat fat. But what we tell them to do is to eat fat to satiety. Satiety does not mean the old, sugar-burning, “fill the stomach till it’s about to explode” amount of food, it’s the amount of fat that satisfies hunger. In my view, eating to satiety is the only way to be sure we’re not stinting ourselves on calories, because we are letting our body signal how much is enough, not dictating to it. By eating to satiety, we allow the body to set our appetite at a level which allows it to take from its excess stored fat, as well as from the food we eat. The only other choice, where weight loss is concerned, is to eat nothing, so that energy expenditure comes entirely from the bodily reserves. Merely eating less triggers the famine “reflex.”

So if you have been eating fat past the point of satiety (which I hope no one here ever told you to do), you definitely should cut back. If you have been eating to satiety and stopping, you can continue doing that, letting your body decide how much you should eat. Or you can do what most of us feel compelled to do, and try to out-think 2,000,000 years of evolution by manipulating input in order to influence output.

But it seems to me that if we influence quality of intake to eat the kinds of foods our ancestors evolved to eat, and influence quantity in accordance with the bodily mechanisms that were designed to regulate how much we eat, then we can’t fail to be healthy and fit.


(Nick) #18

@PaulL Thank you for that. And thank you to everyone else that posted. I’m much more clear on how to move forward from here.

One thing I hear a lot is to eat to satiety. But then I hear that it would be ideal to just have one meal a day - that in doing so would give your digestive system a break, only spike insulin once a day, and some other benefits. So I typically drink bulletproof for breakfast and then have 1 massive lunch and then 1 large dinner. The problem is that I eat tons for lunch but I could keep going if I wanted to. I’m always really hungry by lunch and I can east a lot. I don’t get a clear signal that I’m full unless I eat A LOT.

So maybe I’m not so sure on how to move on from here…


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #19

My experience was that eating to satiety involved a lot of food at the beginning. I have come to think that my body needed it, actually. But one day, in the middle of lunch, I suddenly lost interest in eating one bite more. It felt really weird, and I had to put a half-plate of food back in the fridge for later.

What had happened was that as my insulin dropped, the leptin secreted by my adipose tissue started to register in my hypothalamus again (too much insulin blocks the leptin receptors in the brain, which is one reason fat people are always hungry). At that point, my brain was able to regulate my appetite again. My food intake dropped considerably at that point, and my satiety signal has only gotten stronger since then.

Restricted eating is a technique for keeping your insulin level as low as possible for as much of the day as possible, but you don’t need to force it. Let it happen naturally. These days, my first meal of the day is usually around 2 p.m., just because I’m not usually hungry till then. But if I get hungry earlier in the day, I eat.

Switching to a ketogenic diet forces a lot of changes on the body. They are good changes, but a lot has to happen all at once. Try to let things come on their own, and work with your body, instead of feeling obliged to force your will on it. That’s what seems to work best for me, anyway. :bacon::bacon:


(Jill F.) #20

The bacon emojis are life!

I try to count macros and hit my goals per day but last week or so I am only eating to satiety. It does feel weird to feel full and not eat it all.

I used to eat breakfast, snacks, lilunch, snacks, dinner, snacks. I ate all the damn time and gained and gained. Now I have coffee with MCT powder, eat a small lunch like pimento cheese and celery a beef jerky around noon, then steak and steamed veggies for dinner. No I am by no means shredded, never will be, lol! But compared to what I used eat prior to keto it is amazing that I can just skip breakfast, eat a moderate amount of protein at lunch and then eat dinner around 6 and be satisfied.

Keep up the good work! I am a married lady, but I must say you look pretty, um, amazing already in your pic! :grin: You are obviously doing something right! KCKO