One thing I often hear with some of the keto docs is the importance of nutrient density in the foods that we eat. That’s definitely not the case with the SAD, lots of empty calories there, along with some stuff that just about all agree isn’t good for us.
Long term keto diet unhealthy, according to a friend
Matthew44
(Matthew)
#38
That’s wonderful about your friend. It would be interesting to know if the same diet would be suggested for someone with a fatty disease due to alcohol.
I quoted Dr Berg, not so much because I’m a big fan of his, but his word is regarded as gospel to many here.
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#39
Here’s a study from Virta health of the keto diet for type 2 diabetes, one year in duration:
Their ALT and AST went DOWN by over 20%. The main “negative” they had was an increase in LDL-C. (Though oddly, a decrease in LDL-p.)
Bellyman
(Brian)
#41
… not as many as you might think. 
To be truthful, I started a keto way of eating by watching a few Dr. Berg videos. At the time, I was in a very bad place physically and felt like if I didn’t make some changes, I wouldn’t be long for this world. I don’t know how I ended up with emails in my emailbox from him but there they were. I watched them and even though it was like 180 degrees away from the McDougall stuff that I had been studying and trying to make work for a very long time, I figured I might as well give it a try as the McDougall diet wasn’t getting me positive results. Hey, if I was gonna die anyway, why not try keto?
I didn’t die. I got a lot better, in a lot of ways, including losing over 70 pounds and only another 20 or so to go now till I reach where I want to be. All this happened in the last 14 or 15 months. Yeah, after struggling with the “plant based starch solution” for over a decade.
So after I got started on keto, I got interested in who else is keto and started searching out other doctors who advocated low carb as well as forums where others talk about keto and/or low carb. And as I got more involved, other docs tended to come to the forefront with me and Dr. Berg started taking more of a back seat. I was introduced to a few things that Dr. Berg said that were a little odd or perhaps just plain wrong according to others. Plus, despite my like of vegetables, 7-10 cups of veggies a day just wasn’t gonna happen. (Glad it doesn’t have to.)
So I’m thankful for Dr. Berg. He helped me to take my first step into the world of keto, and for that I am sincerely grateful. Since then, I’d like to think I’ve grown and learned and moved on from those days of baby steps.
Just my take. No offense intended towards those who think more of Dr. Berg than I do.
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#43
One thing you can glean from this and not even talking in long-term efficacy aspect of the ketogenic LCHF diet is that if you take the fat out of your diet and try the stupid attempt to trying to high carb it with refined foods, sugar and an insulin dominant diet you will probably die of CVD or CHD (sugar) by trapping cholesterol in your blood stream; that is if another twist of fate does not get you first?
#1 killer of Americans is Cardiovascular Disease followed by Medical Malpractice and DWI/DUI!
Statistically speaking all you need is a ten year sample because it will never ever change! 
So is the ketogenic diet safe long-term? HELL YES!!!
Matthew44
(Matthew)
#46
Another fantastic keto testimony!
I am one of the few that doesn’t have a huge problem with DR Berg’s vegetable recommendation. I eat at least 7-8 cups of vegetables a day. I will not eat a meal without a big portion of vegetables. Reducing my vegetable intake is non negotiable in my books. The bigger portion of vegetables the more moderate the protein portion. Then you can stock up on the fat. That’s how I approach it.
Janie
(Jane)
#47
I’m not so sure about that but just my gut feeling. Many moons ago people rarely ate out, ate lard, butter and bacon fats and Mom cooked everything at home from scratch. Produce and meats were locally sourced (and seasonal - we only had grapes in the summer growing up).
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#48
But heart disease doesn’t go into first grade classrooms and kill an entire classroom full of kids.
collaroygal
(KCKO, KCFO)
#50
Yes, their diet would be different as you stated. But my take away when I read it was that the difference was not anything worth worrying about as it was not decades, it was only about a year, sorry I can’t find that link to be more exact.
Bellyman
(Brian)
#51
I wish I had a link, too. I can’t even remember where I heard it or who was saying it. It’s possible I’m in error thinking that their diet was different than ours (certainly possible!) in some of the details. I had in mind that the fats that they were using may not have been so healthy, just don’t know where that idea came from.
It is interesting that the epilepsy was often gone after going back to a regular diet a year or so later in many of the cases. I always did wonder what it was that changed over that time. There are things happening in the brain that are very much a mystery today. Was just listening to a talk by Amy Berger last evening talking about Alzheimer’s… interesting.
Sorry if I did mis-speak about their diet being different.
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#52
As long as you getting enough choline from the incredible egg yolk (choline: 126 mg per large egg yolk) or other sources, you will not get a fatty liver while doing ketogenic diet!
The liver is the only organ in the body that can completely 100% regenerate damage done to it with the exception of Hep-C but sometimes that can be reversed also (currently studying that)!
Milk thistle (silymarin) helps regenerate the liver!
Alcoholic Liver Disease: A human study of 36 people with chronic alcoholic liver disease revealed similar findings.31 Patients took either silymarin or placebo every day for six months. At baseline, all patients had elevations of liver enzymes and other markers of liver damage in their blood; they also had biopsy-proven tissue damage. Following treatment, however, all of the markers of liver damage had normalized in the silymarin group, with minimal changes among placebo recipients. Repeated biopsies revealed improvement in the silymarin group, but no changes in the placebo patients. This study was a powerful demonstration of silymarin’s liver-protective activity, and its ability to improve liver function in alcoholic patients.31 …More
DATA CHOLINE:
Janie
(Jane)
#53
For some reason I always assumed the epilepsy kids had to stay on the low carb diet their entire lives to keep the epilepsy from coming back. Interesting if they only had to stay on it a year or so.
I wish they would do more long-term studies on LCHF. Since our ketones can be measured the researchers do not have to rely on people lying about what they ate and skewing the data. No money to be made though so not holding my breath.
Janie
(Jane)
#55
I had to Google them since I’ve never heard of Virta. Do they publish any papers or do any studies on their patients? How long do they typically follow a patient and do they have any long-term (> 5 years) patients they are still doing follow-ups in their program?
MarkGossage
(bulkbiker)
#56
They’ve just published 2 year research (they haven’t yet been around for much longer).
Dr’s Volek , Phinney and Hallberg all are involved… keto royalty!