It appears to me that many people seem to think in extremes. It’s either Keto or the SAD, with nothing in between. It’s really about the insulin-glucagon balance, and how to eat so as to avoid detrimental lipogenic readaptations.
If you don’t eat carbs in such a way as to cause chronic glycogen overcompensation, you don’t cause readaptations.
I see dietitians are as ignorant about Lipolysis now as when I had a chat with one over 15 years ago.
I put dietitians in the same category as big pharma.
Just want your money and your business.
All of these nutritionists that are talking shit about keto only do so because their livelihood, businesses and careers are threatened.
All of their research and education is based on SAD Lifestyles.
Fook that.
One of the comments on a friend’s Facebook thread about keto mentioned it was bad on the kidneys long term. I figured it wasn’t worth getting into it with her. I’ve made my Facebook a politics and argument free zone.
It’s one of those things that just won’t die. Doctor after doctor, even Dr. Fung, a nephrologist, doesn’t say that keto is bad for the kidneys. But because somebody said it on the internet, it must be true. UUGGHHH!!!
Some people just want excuses not to do something. Amazingly enough, they’ll always find them.
Yeah, I was going to mention Dr Fung to her but decided against engaging in a debate.
ANY time you’re trying to lose weight, your body will develop new “set points” where you will plateau. It’s an ingrained biological trait to prevent starvation. It has nothing to do with the type of diet.
There are also times when your body is working to fix mitochondrial damage or other problems, and weight loss will stall.
A lot of times you have to “trick” your body into starting downward again, once it’s hit a set point. We use TMAD, OMAD, increasing/decreasing caloric intake, and fasting to mix things up and keep the body guessing as to what we’re going to feed it.
HOGWASH. One of my best friends, who is on this forum (infrequently; she’s too busy!) was put on a keto diet (<10 g carbs! Even more strict than we normally recommend here) by her endocrinologist, to CURE her NAFLD. And it worked, while helping her lose over 100 pounds. Take anything Dr Berg says with a tablespoon of salt, if you get my drift.
I tend to take anything Dr Berg has to say with a mountain of salt… well in truth I no longer watch him… he has some odd ideas of which keto being a cause not cure of NAFLD is but one…
The latest 2ketodudes podcast with Dr. Phinney addresses this. He and Dr. Westman are writing up their research that was a 2 yr. study.
The only thing I have seen about not healthy long term had to do with children raised on it, they had a little shorter life span than children not raised on keto, I can’t remember where I saw that but since it was not a big difference and I didn’t even bookmark it. I did not start keto as a child so didn’t seem to apply to me.
Wouldn’t most children raised on a ketogenic diet long enough ago to have life-span data have had epilepsy? Seems like a confounder to me.
Yes, I was referring to the epilepsy children, the study I read was based on them. I don’t think you find many kids these days without epilepsy being raised keto, outside of some keto parents who are trying to teach their kids to avoid sugar and starchy carbs.
The ketogenic diet that was being fed to those epileptic children many moons ago was pretty different than what most of us here eat as a ketogenic diet. I think our modern version of keto is a lot more concerned with the quality of ingredients, i.e. good fats/oils vs vegetable oils, and with getting proper nutrition, not just being in ketosis.
I’m not saying they were careless back then, only that we know quite a bit more today about how to maintain good nutrition and eat a ketogenic diet with more emphasis on healthy foods.
A person can get to ketosis with foods that aren’t good for us.
Thanks for all of the replies, I really appreciate it! To be clear I’m not diabetic and my only desire to be on keto was that I was about 40lbs overweight and I wanted to get back into my skinny jeans. I should add that in addition to keto I’m also doing intermittent fasting, typically 7/17 or 6/18. Really the only ill effects I’ve noticed are fatigue when doing physical activity (I usually notice this in my legs first…for example, I just can’t run like I used to). Also I’ve noticed a slight reduction in libido. I’ve gotten to a point where I really don’t need to lose more weight (or at least that’s what my wife says). I’m going to start mixing in more veggies and occasionally fruit.
I have also had a couple people mention to me that they had heard that keto has some short-term benefits but is not healthy in the long-term. My response was that I think it is nonsense because I am eating much healthier foods then I did before.
We know the diet that is very detrimental and unhealthy long term is the SAD because most of us are here because it screwed up our health. Back then before Keto, I never had anyone say to me, “You know, the way you are eating is not very healthy long term.” Strange…
To me, it is just plain common sense to consider this WOE as healthy long-term. The diet is basically eating meat, healthy vegetables with some butter and olive oil. Essentially, eating nutritious rich foods instead of inflammatory or highly-processed, low-quality foods.
One of my goals is to prove that this notion that Keto is unhealthy long term is false. Call it one of my long-term n=1 experiments. At the same time, I can also disprove that other ludicrous notion that Keto is unsustainable.
In june I had a soniagram and had a small amount of NA fatty liver. My enzymes were creeping higher. Strict Keto and my enzymes are now normal and that has not happened for 5 years. MY doctor says no need for a sonogram. Enzymes tell the story. AST ACT…
I’m strict <20g carb and I eat fat and saturated fat foods.
One thing I often hear with some of the keto docs is the importance of nutrient density in the foods that we eat. That’s definitely not the case with the SAD, lots of empty calories there, along with some stuff that just about all agree isn’t good for us.
That’s wonderful about your friend. It would be interesting to know if the same diet would be suggested for someone with a fatty disease due to alcohol.
I quoted Dr Berg, not so much because I’m a big fan of his, but his word is regarded as gospel to many here.
Here’s a study from Virta health of the keto diet for type 2 diabetes, one year in duration:
Their ALT and AST went DOWN by over 20%. The main “negative” they had was an increase in LDL-C. (Though oddly, a decrease in LDL-p.)
… not as many as you might think. 
To be truthful, I started a keto way of eating by watching a few Dr. Berg videos. At the time, I was in a very bad place physically and felt like if I didn’t make some changes, I wouldn’t be long for this world. I don’t know how I ended up with emails in my emailbox from him but there they were. I watched them and even though it was like 180 degrees away from the McDougall stuff that I had been studying and trying to make work for a very long time, I figured I might as well give it a try as the McDougall diet wasn’t getting me positive results. Hey, if I was gonna die anyway, why not try keto?
I didn’t die. I got a lot better, in a lot of ways, including losing over 70 pounds and only another 20 or so to go now till I reach where I want to be. All this happened in the last 14 or 15 months. Yeah, after struggling with the “plant based starch solution” for over a decade.
So after I got started on keto, I got interested in who else is keto and started searching out other doctors who advocated low carb as well as forums where others talk about keto and/or low carb. And as I got more involved, other docs tended to come to the forefront with me and Dr. Berg started taking more of a back seat. I was introduced to a few things that Dr. Berg said that were a little odd or perhaps just plain wrong according to others. Plus, despite my like of vegetables, 7-10 cups of veggies a day just wasn’t gonna happen. (Glad it doesn’t have to.)
So I’m thankful for Dr. Berg. He helped me to take my first step into the world of keto, and for that I am sincerely grateful. Since then, I’d like to think I’ve grown and learned and moved on from those days of baby steps.
Just my take. No offense intended towards those who think more of Dr. Berg than I do.
