Long term keto diet unhealthy, according to a friend


(Bill Bates) #1

So I recently met an old friend of mine for dinner and I was telling him how I had lost 40lbs and felt healthier than I ever had before. He was no stranger to keto having done Atkins then keto, and he lost a lot of weight himself. His advice to me was not to continue on keto since I was close to my goal and it was “unhealthy” long term. I asked him what that advice was based on and the response I got was “lots of research”. I call bunk on this. My question to all of you is, is there research that shows long term keto (<20g carbs) is good or bad either way? I’m having a hard time finding hard research that isn’t based on mice or anecdotal filling out a non controlled sort of survey. I’m close to a point where I can mix in more carbs now but only because my wife doesn’t want me to get “too skinny”.


(bulkbiker) #2

No there won’t be… nutritional studies are effectively impossible.
They either rely on food surveys (notoriously inaccurate) or so called RCT’s where subjects are preselected for certain characteristics.
They are then not locked in a secure unit for their entire lifetime and fed specific things and have their vitals monitored. So there will never be a really “controlled” trial of anything where humans and food are concerned (yes I do know that doesn’t fit the usual definition of what an RCT is).
In my view all of these studies are a complete waste of time and energy as humans lie and lying to an anonymous person doing a food survey is dead easy and will make you look virtuous.
As for mice studies even more useless and usually wholly biased towards proving a point rather than discovering anything new.
Strangely a lot of research scientists never seem to be able to grasp these, to me, fairly simple points and keep on doing their pointless meta studies of severely flawed studies ad infinitum… must be something to do with the paycheck.
So you feel great, have great metabolic markers but your “friend” says don’t do it long term.
I know what I’d do… and a new “friend” might be on the cards… Still thats just me.


(Bob M) #3

There are multiple low carb studies of 2 years duration, with few or no ill effects. That’s about as long as studies get.


(Mindy) #4

just posing a question to you…why not ask your friend to substantiate their claim that keto is dangerous long term. Why is the onus on you to prove what you are doing is right? I prefer those who tell me that what I am doing is wrong (even though I feel great and look great) back up their position.


#5

I think it is only dangerous if eating a diet closer to what our digestive track has evolved to eat causes us to act like a prehistoric man and incur injury to ourselves as we chase down a woolly mammoth


(Ken) #6

Of course there are long term negative effects if you define “Keto” as less than 20 carbs per day. It took me well over three years to experience them since I was so obese. Mankind evolved on periodic or occasional carbs, insisting on severe restriction in perpetuity is unnatural. It’s all in understanding how not to readapt back into chronic Lipogenesis so you don’t regain fat or experience detrimental health issues.


#7

Can I ask what those negatives were/are?


(Matthew) #8

I’m a newbie on Keto and I am also very circumspect regarding the long term health benefits. The short to medium term benefits are seemingly apparent for persons at high risk of type 2 diabetes or already have Type 2 diabetes. But there does seem to be a plateauing effect after 6 - 12 months on Keto with regards to weight loss.

My main concern relating to pursuing keto for the long term is developing a ‘Fatty Liver’. See Dr Berg’s presentation… A Ketogenic Diet Can Cause a Fatty Liver.
Now for one such as myself who probably already has a fatty liver from years of alcohol binge-drinking, is following a high fat diet paradoxically healthy for my liver or not ( to one that is already fatty)?


(Ken) #9

Sure, a massive, long term stall of over a year, fatigue, and a loss of libido. I never really was hungry. I had lost around 180lbs, but still was overweight. All solved when I started eating carbs for metabolic purposes.

I started training, and found out about CKD. Bingo! I started losing again and things returned to normal. That’s what set off the metabolism lightbulb, and I’ve been doing it ever since, around 15 years.


#10

Unfortunate for you no doubt & glad you found something that works for you but there are a lot of people who’ve been at it a long time & do quite well. I’ve been doing it near enough 5 years (not very long but I’ve given it a fair crack) & have suffered no ill effects.


(Ken) #11

I think a lot has to do with activity level. It also took me awhile to understand I was experiencing negative effects. I was as fanatical about not eating carbs as anyone here. I recommend self experimentation as long as you’re objective enough to accurately evaluate results. There’s little danger of regaining fat since you never eat enough carbs to chronically overcompensate glycogen.


#12

I’m very active - I hike hills/mountain bike/kayak/weight train & still have energy to burn. I do just fine on an average of 25 grams per day - perhaps those extra 5 grams make all the difference :wink: I’m not concerned at all with weight so that’s one point of difference between us - n of 1 & all that.


(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #13

I had this same argument with someone on facebook last night
They said ketosis was unhealthy long term because of ketoacidosis
I tried to explain the difference, even provided articles to teach them otherwise, and I was attacked and told ‘your article proved my exact point hahahaha’ obviously didn’t read it properly because they WERE A [spoiler]FUCKWIT[/spoiler]

Now I am going to get in trouble from @juice because I promised I wouldn’t argue with idiots on Facebook anymore.

But I truly give up after today. I am defeated.


(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #14

Sigh


(Running from stupidity) #15

I note you’re not saying you don’t deserve it…

But I truly give up after today. I am defeated.

I’d be more inclined to believe this if it wasn’t for the quote above this one.

I got off FB “for a fortnight” about a year ago, and I’m obviously not rushing back :slight_smile:

:smiley:

n of 1 & all that.

Yeah, this is a fairly important point in this area that some seem to not believe in.


(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #16

Haha. Im not going to do it anymore. I cant. It impacts my mental health :crazy_face::rofl:


(Diana ) #17

Ok, what is CKD for us, the unenlightened?


(Brian) #18

I think you’ll find that there are numerous MDs that would take issue with that statement. Dr Ken Berry comes to mind. Look him up on YouTube. Lots of short straight to the point videos that answer a bunch of questions. He’s a real MD seeing real patients. He’s also eating keto leaning towards carnivore.


(Ken) #20

It’s a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet, developed about 20 years ago, primarily for Bodybuilders.


(Diana ) #21

Ah, thanks!