Lion Diet to heal, 4 months in, poor restults. Anyone can help?

newbies
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carnivore
zero-carb-carnivore
(Alec) #61

I reckon that’s worth getting a Dr’s opinion on. The liver is the 3rd most important organ in the body (after brain and heart) and needs to be listened to. Or you could wait for it to happen again and then go to the Dr. IMHO, if this happened to me I would want a professional opinion.

(Bkone ) #62

Yes, the next time this happens i will have that checked!

#63

You are losing a lot of important trace minerals drinking RO water. I’m pretty sure you can purchase drops to add them back to your water, which I would highly recommend! It might also make the water taste better.

(Bkone ) #64

Thank you Sophie! I do not doubt that this might be an issue. The thing I do not understand is, everybody here is drinking RO water, or might that be offset by eating a lot of processed food?

#65

Still good enough if you ask me :wink: (Don’t ask me. I am horrible at sticking to even my chosen default woe and I love and need variety…) You surely handle cheese well, of course some people don’t and they could benefit from a stricter approach.

I personally often go for a stricter style than what I deem necessary. I tend to feel the need to add a little extra sometimes, maybe it’s my personality and if I add back the stuff I got out just for the sake of being strict, I still have it great…
But I do a stricter style out of curiosity and to train myself as well. As there is still a gap between my desires and what I deem ideal, even on carnivore. I tend to overeat dairy (even when I keep in mind to be careful. they add up too quickly and easily). I can’t live without dairy. So I may have dairy free days here and there but normally I just keep them at the minimum and don’t eat dairy items willy-nilly. Just when it would be comfortable without them or the dish calls for some.

Poop talk is very much relevant, I never understood the ones who had problem with it… I saw plenty of poop talk on this forum, we have threads about it, even :wink:

(Edith) #66

It depends upon your oxalate load and how you ate before you stopped eating oxalate containing foods. Some people, particularly those who were vegetarians for years can experience dumping on and off for many years. It can be quite debilitating at first.

I experienced it on and off my entire seven month carnivore trial. Sometimes it was quite painful, but I did notice improvements in my back after my trial, so I do think it helped. I eat low oxalate now and still have some mild dumping every once in a while, but not nearly as bad a when it first started.

I don’t know if this pertains to you but you mentioned that you do eat some dairy. Dairy can be quite inflammatory. If I eat dairy, I get very itchy and get scaly itchy bumps on on scalp and back. Could dairy be contributing to your skin troubles?

(Edith) #67

Not a doctor here, but it could be related to your gallbladder, particularly since you upped your fat intake.

(Betsy) #68

Thomas, where do you get the suet? What brand?

(Betsy) #69

I see that neurodermatitis is also called lichen planus and oral lichen planus can be related to epstein barr virus, I don’t know whether ebv is involved when it is found elsewhere on the body.

This could be a good clue, look up symptoms of zinc deficiency.

  • hair loss.
  • skin and hair changes.
  • eye problems.
    Does Vitamin A

So if one has a zinc deficiency, and extra Vitamin A would cause problems.
This might also explain why you had the symptoms before eating the liver.
I can explain what is possibly causing the zinc deficiency, too.

Deficiency of zinc leads to imbalance in T- helper lymphocytes (TH), the decrease in the number of TH1 lymphocytes will result in increasing TH2 as the reimbursement process . The increasing in the TH2 function is related to the formation of lichen planus, increasing cytotoxicity and lichen planus pathogenesis."

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #70

Don’t cook liver more than 90 seconds on each side, and less than that if the slices are thin. It should still be pink in the middle, for best flavour.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #71

According to Sally K. Norton, who has studied the subject intensively, the problems can start later than that, it all depends. She mentions the case of Paul Saladino, a very vocal former carnivore, who was successful on a carnivore diet for a year and a half, until his vegan past caught up with him. Now he needs fruit in his diet to slow the oxalate excretion to a rate he can deal with.

(Edith) #72

Does she know that it was oxalate dumping that caused his issue or is it just conjecture on her part? I heard him mention on several occasions that he had trouble with heart palpitations due to electrolyte issues. I guess that could be from dumping, but I theorized it was because carbs help us hold onto water and electrolytes and that’s why he had to add fruit and honey.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #73

I don’t know. She said it while being interviewed by Anthony Chaffee, and it sounded as though she were speaking from personal knowledge. That’s all I can tell you.

But apparently, oxalate toxicity can cause a wide range of different problems. As Sally puts it, not all problems are necessarily caused by oxalates, but oxalates can definitely be implicated in a lot of cases, which makes it hard to reach an accurate diagnosis. She also says that a number of fruits, or even just a cup of tea, can be helpful in slowing oxalate excretion, but she would never recommend honey to anyone.

(Edith) #74

Yeah, when I went through the worst of my oxalate dumping, I used black tea.

(Bkone ) #75

Up until now I found it relatively easy to stick to my diet, there have been some days where I would have preferred to eat something else when I was hungry, but it was very easy to overcome just by stop thinking about that, eat some meat and fat and then the urge to eat something else disappeard.

The only dairy that I am having right now are aged cheeses with a high fat amount, so no milk or other products and I think I can tolerate that.

I will check out those poop talk thread then!

(Bkone ) #76

Before switching to carnivore, I ate a lot of bread (mostly dark, made of Rye instead Wheat), oatmeal daily, rice, beans, fruits (apples, oranges and banana mostly), pizza, pasta, meat (but not the same quantities as now), salami, ham, eggs, green salad from time to time, etc. + beer and wine. I think that sums it up quite well. So I never was vegetarian or anything like that.

How did the pain manifest??

How to you notice that your body is dumping oxalates?

Correct, I do eat cheese (aged cheeses with high fat content) from time to time. There are weeks I go totally without cheese, and some days (like the last 2 or 3) where I consume quite a bit. I could never relate any issues directly to the consumption of cheese, but perhaps the reaction is too disguised for me to recognize that it comes from the cheese.

(Bkone ) #77

This might be true. Gallblader could be the reason here. I am afraid that my body ist not yet totally fat adapted, since my stool is still quite pale, which, according to my research, indicates that not enought bile is being produced. As long as this strange pain does not repeat, I will classify that as an adaption sign or “anything that is changing in my body right now”, and actually see it as a positive indicator, rather than worrying about it. I do not know why, but something tells me that this is nothing to freak out about.

(Bkone ) #78

I get the suet directly from my local butcher. So there is no brand per se I could tell you. He only uses grass fed beef, so that should actually be quite allright. Fresh and grass-fed. Still I noticed a drastic change from very loose stool to nearly constipation. :flushed:

(Bkone ) #79

Thank you Betsy!

I have never heard about Lichen Planus, but after checking out some images, it seems similar in some cases.

I will get another bloodwork done soon, then I will see how my zinc levels, etc, have developed over time.

(Bkone ) #80

OK, so I am definately overcooking…I always cook it to an interior temperature of 74°C, which is more than well-done.

It would be handy to see how this could be measured/monitored. I can imagine that the symptoms change from person to person.