Keto vs. Carnivore and optimal weight (fat) loss

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keto
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carnivore
(Adriana Ro) #41

I mean, other than meat I only eat eggs and olive oil

(Chris) #42

I lift very intensely and that seems to drive my appetite. Weight stays fairly constant, but does fluctuate.

(George) #43

I lift 5 days/week, but not anything crazy intense, just enough to burn a little more fat while maintaining/build some lean mass. I definitely want to increase that and move more toward zero carb/carnivore once I shed the rest of the fat I have on me.

(Consensus is Politics) #44

[Bob raises his hand]

image http://gifon007.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Funny-Video-Cute-Dog-Having-a-Shower-Video-Gif.gif

#45

I felt fine on it but got bored as hell with my eating. I still did heavy cream in my coffee and hard cheeses and avacados, still was hugely limited though. Lost a couple lbs but nothing crazy.

(George) #46

So would you say you had more success following standard keto vs carnivore?

(hottie turned hag) #47

@JRS08 Sorry if you were asking someone specific, just throwing my .02 in.

I had excellent success on keto/eat once 24h until I got close to goal weight (115). At 122 I stalled for several months. Got mad. Dropped veg and cheese and went to 118 in ten days or so. Weighed today am 116 (was 118 2 weeks ago). New goal is 110.

Itā€™s all highly individualized, though. But when closer to goal weight with not much to lose, meat/eggs/butter only (scared to label it carnivore now after some posts :face_with_raised_eyebrow: herein) got the weight dropping again.

(George) #48

Thatā€™s what I keep hearing, the closer you are to goal, the better it is to drop veg/dairy. Iā€™m about 58 lbs. away from goal weight (which I hope to hit by my 30th birthday in December, but only 45 lbs. from being under 200lbs., and I canā€™t remember the last time I was under 200 (maybe in Junior high school). If i do stall out close to goal weight, I just hope itā€™s under 200 lol.

(hottie turned hag) #49

Iā€™m a 55 y/o female so my case differs from yours greatly; replies from males in your age range/size prob be more applicable, though there are some universals, I guess?

I had a few unlooked for benefits after dropping the cheese and veg, too, listed in my post upthread.

I canā€™t fathom, though, that ANYone wouldnā€™t lose on meat/eggs alone, no matter what factors are in play. Itā€™s SO hard to overeat when eating just meat; one is satisfied on far less overall, and hunger -for me- is so diminished, and cravings are none!

When eating cheese and veg I craved both, esp cheese, so prob overdid it often.

(Mary) #50

I hope this isnā€™t a stupid question, but when you guys talk about carnivore being meat and eggs do you include bacon? (I can give up most things but bacon will have to be pried from my cold, dead handsā€¦)

(traci simpson) #51

I did a meat only type deal years ago and I absolutely had no energy whatsoever. I would eat and then get sleepy as crap. I was constipated and lethargic everyday. I just donā€™t know how you do it.

(Chris) #52

If eating avocados youā€™re still getting fiber and thus not allowing yourself to even adapt to carnivore. Some would argue coffee puts you in that category as well. Itā€™s just a more extreme keto.

#53

Bacon is perfectly fine on a carnivore diet

(William Shafer III) #54

Iā€™ll give my 2 centsā€¦ I did Keto with occasional fasting from January 2018 till March 2019. Dropped from 340lbs to 260lbs then back up to 277. I stopped doing any intermittent fasting and eat a huge amount of cheese (16oz a day). I then got fed up and cut dairy out half way through March. Dropped back to 268lbs, then decided to go OMAD and am down another 8lbs in April. Carnivore only lasted till mid April. The past few weeks I went back to eating limited veg. and nuts (I eat peppers, onions, mushrooms, and pecans/sunflower seeds) as well as beef and eggs.

One other thingā€¦ I donā€™t here it a lot on any forums but I ferment my veg. (lacto-fermentation) and from my knowledge when you ferment the lacto-bacillus digest a good amount of the carbs and turn them into lactic acid. So, my veg. consumption is most probiotic and fiber.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #55

I avoid using words like ā€œtrueā€ and ā€œpureā€ (and even ā€œdirtyā€, because it implies there is a ā€œpureā€ for which it is the opposite). These terms ignore or deflect from the purpose of the carnivore diet.

Here is an historical lesson: On the original ZIOH forum, there was a falling out between the admins there and a woman, S, who felt that eating some small amount of plants should still be considered carnivore. The admins wanted to have ZIOH be only about plant free diets, because for many of us, and certainly the forum founders, the therapeutic effects donā€™t kick in just from lowering plants. S left the forum and created her own, which she called Dirty Carnivore (in part appealing to the sexual connotation). I belonged to both fora for several months. At a certain point I left Sā€™s forum, because I and a few others including R, were being ostracised because we didnā€™t eat any plants, basically accused of being puritanical. S also came onto another third forum just to respond to one of Rā€™s posts, insisting that R was a fraud, because she was ā€œpretending to be a pure carnivoreā€, but had once in the old forum reported eating a handful of nuts (which she did, and paid for it with symptoms and didnā€™t do it again). This is what happens when you make it about purity.

Words like ā€œpureā€ make the mistake of conflating the need or decision to stick to a strict definition of a diet with morality. Moreover, they essentially deny the existence of people who have an acute response to the diet as defined by those people. That is, the definition of the carnivore diet is one that excludes almost all plants with the exception of certain things like coffee, because this is the diet that a group of people got together to talk about how it helped them specifically to follow it. If a diet that is low in plants is helpful to someone, thatā€™s great, but itā€™s not the carnivore diet that we are talking about. Someone who normally eats no plants and then one day eats a small amount of plants doesnā€™t become a non-carnivore because of that, because it is not about faithfulness or purity, but someone who normally eats a small amount of plants isnā€™t eating a carnivore diet, period. Iā€™m sure there are tricky edge cases we could take to a judge, but the meaning should be clear.

Words like ā€œtrueā€ evince confusion with the purpose of the diet. The diet is not an attempt to try to mimic the diet of other carnivorous animals! Besides, the definition of carnivore as it pertains to species is fraught with complexity, as Iā€™ve argued many times in the past. I have an entire book chapter (not yet published) devoted to this problem. Itā€™s a complete red herring. Itā€™s not what is meant by a carnivore diet. What other carnivores do or donā€™t do is irrelevant.

Why not avocado?
(Chris) #56

Such a simple explanation. Thanks @amber.

(Heath Braunstein) #57

I often do carnivore meals and find that i have reduced my overall veg consumption since going keto

(George) #58

Forgot to ask this before, but did you gain any weight after ending carnivore, or any weight when starting carnivore?

(William Shafer III) #59

Hi there. I definitely didnā€™t gain any weight but to be honest at the time I transitioned from carnivore back to keto I also switched over to OMAD so that does complicate things a bit. I would say it depends on how many nuts and veggies you add back as well as which ones. My net carbs are still well below 20 grams. I usually am between 10-15g net carbs daily.

(George) #60

Well Iā€™ve been OMAD for a while and plan to stay OMAD. I donā€™t really eat many nuts to begin with, maybe a handful of almonds every 2 to 3 days, if that. The only veggies I consume now are pretty much spinach, Asparagus, brussel sprouts, avocados and lettuce. Occasionally broccoli too, but main the leafy ones.

Iā€™m going sort of carnivore/ZC next week just to try it out, and hoping I dont gain any weight from it. Iā€™m not expecting that I will. I feel I have lost a ton this week (wonā€™t check for sure till Sunday, but this week I just had fatty salads (spinach, chicken thigh meat cooked in butter, cheese, tons of extra virgin olive oil, bacon bits, avocados, pork rinds,etc. all in the salads) so Iā€™d hate to see a gain if I indeed did lose alot this week.