Keto vs. Carnivore and optimal weight (fat) loss

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(William Shafer III) #61

Looks like you’ve been doing a pretty standard keto. Nothing really stands out, all the veggie’s you’ve been eating are low starch high fiber. The one bit of advice I’d give for carnivore is you might want to consider beef, lamb, venison, etc. Chicken is less calorie dense than ruminants I found if I eat only chicken I’d have to eat approx. 25% more. Beef makes OMAD easier IMHO.


(George) #62

I definitely agree. I usually eat ribeyes or NY strips, I just happened to get a free pack of thighs from my mother in law last week, and since I meal prep for the week out of convenience, I settled on those salads.

A typical go-to meal I have other than those salads every once in a while consists of about 7-8 oz of beef cooked in butter, a butter fried egg on top, bacon wrapped asparagus cooked in it’s own fat and maybe some olive oil on top too for the hell of if it, a whole avocado, pork rinds, and maybe some feta cheese. I like to keep it simple.

So pretty much next week I’ll just be eliminating the veg and dairy, so, OMAD steaks, butter, bacon, eggs, and pork fat all week.


(William Shafer III) #63

Best of luck you’ll have to keep us posted! Just to give more examples for people I list what today look like: I cooked 12oz of beef, 12oz of spiral ham (parents gave me ham, need to use it up) 2 slices of bacon (chopped) I cook all that in a skillet till browned. Then I add 1/2 cup of yellow onion, three stalks of green onion, 1 minced Jalapeno, and 1/2 cup of red bell pepper. I cook the mix till the veggies wilt then wisked 4 eggs together and pour into mix. Other than a big scramble I do a protein shake with some Lionsmane extract in it and maybe 1/8 a cup of lacto-fermented veggies to aid digestion. Typical macro’s approx. 70 fat / 27 protein / 3 carb. Hope this helps give somebody another prospective.


(George) #64

That sounds delicious and filling!

I tried upping my intake similarly to what you just posted a few weeks ago out of fear that I wasn’t consuming enough calories, especially on OMAD, but it was a daily struggle to eat. I think I was having 5 egg omelette with a little heavy cream and spinach in the mixture, butter, homemade mayo, cheese, approx. 10 oz steak, and I felt beyond stuffed after each meal. Granted, I still lost a little weight at the end of the week even though I was eating well past my satiety threshold., but that was after a 60ish hour fast (I fast 36+ every week),


#66

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(Richard M) #67

That is what I am wondering. I have been trying the carnivore diet for 2 weeks and I’m a lot more hungry than on a LCHF KETO diet. I ate breakfast this morning for the first since December. Is that normal? And fill more bloated. And I can not fast as long as on keto. Is that normal and has anyone else had the same experience.
I will probably go back to keto and try carnivore later. I loved the control I had on keto. But I will keep on researching carnivore diet.
I have to ask the most debated question. Does excessive protein get stored as fat?


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #68

Carnivores tend to eat twice as much meat as they did on their ketogenic diet. Eat to satisfy your hunger.

As for excessive protein, I suppose it depends on how you define “excessive.” We don’t really advise eating more than 2 g/kg lean body mass/day. The body has a limited ability to store amino acids, and the excess has to be disposed of, in one way or another. One way is to deaminate them (i.e., remove the nitrogen), excreting the ammonia generated in the urine, and finding some way to deal with the amino acid remnants. Within certain limits, these remnants can be converted into either glucose or fatty acids, depending on which amino acid they originally were, and those molecules can then be metabolised. I suppose that the excess could be stored as fat, if insulin could be persuaded to rise; otherwise they would have to be excreted, if not metabolised. At some point, the excess of ammonia from the deamination process overwhelms the uric acid pathway, and ammonia toxicity becomes a problem.


#69

Do you know how your macros changed? I usually need more meals to eat enough on carnivore as my meals often are much smaller due to my ridiculously easy satiation… But I still get hungry if I don’t eat enough.
I can’t fast on carnivore, yep. Even my very natural IF that I have on all other diet is in danger, it’s due to my smaller meals. Sometimes I need 6 meals or 2 but with a huge eating window (I very typically, almost always get hungry 3 hours after my meal except the last one of the day on any woe except carnivore. it’s 1-12 hours on it). Keto was consistent and convenient (just not good enough, I need extreme low-carb), I must solve this problem on carnivore too and I will. Maybe it takes time.
And food choices are very important. Meat is often too satiating for me and I have not satiating items so if I really want, I can do TMAD and occasionally OMAD but it takes much effort and feels less natural, I couldn’t do it longer term, it must come somewhat naturally.

Sometimes it’s boredness with my food that keeps my energy intake low-ish for a little while but it can be solved with huge variety. I think. I never went beyond 2 weeks for various reasons.

I would (and do) experiment with different styles, fattier/leaner, more or less meat, different kinds of meat etc. to see what works best. I start to figure out after more than a year on/off carnivore-ish but there are still so many experiments to do! :slight_smile:

Breakfast after a long time without it? I only am hungry early (after years almost never eating before noon or rather 2-3pm) if I simply didn’t eat enough in the previous days… I don’t know what the reason of your body but maybe it wants more food, it sounds a valid option to me not only because I have that…

But it’s possible the jump was too big for you. I do things a bit gradually as I need that and I had to be ready for the changes first anyway.
So you may be right, trying it later may yield better results. But it’s possible you can’t avoid some harder times in the beginning.

Good luck on your woe, whatever style you choose!


(Bob M) #70

I eat way more protein than that. Today, I had about 1 pound of top round, so about 140 grams of protein, for my first meal. I also had some cheese. My last DEXA scan indicated I had about 130 pounds of lean mass, but I’ve gained more muscle since then. Let’s say 150 pounds, which is unlikely, but it’ll do. That’s about 75kg, so 150 grams of protein.

I’m basically near/at 150 grams for my first meal.

Today, we’ll likely have the roast beef I made over the weekend (my lunch was sous vide-ed top round; the roast beef was made in the oven). The roast beef is made of…top round. I’ll easily eat another pound.

So, I’m at near or above 300g of protein, so 4g/kg, a day. And this is a pretty normal day, though on the higher side of protein. But I’m consistently well above 2g/kg/day.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #71

You may be one of those people who need a lot more protein. If you look at the study on which the 0.8 g/kg/day protein intake guideline is based, the nitrogen loss is all over the map. The daily recommendation is pegged to give people a little bit extra protein over the average of daily nitrogen loss (equivalent to 0.6 g protein), but from the look of the graph, there are a lot of people who need considerably more than 0.8 g of protein, just to compensate for their nitrogen loss alone.


(Vic) #72

My experience seems to be very different. Fasting is super easy for me if I want to, up to 4 days with nearly any effort.

2mad is my thing, sometimes I do omad for no particular reonason.

Find your own thing, go back to Keto and explore.
Stay below 20gr carbs a day and you’ll be fine.