Keto test results way too high (89ppm, Ketoscan mini)

#1

Hi,

seems like my last account and first post was deleted immediately automatic, because I used a VPN service or due to my secure mail address. I hope this account and post will stay :-). And I hope that the other post about the same issue I did, won’t be released also after some time, so it would be a double post. But the account was deleted immediately so I think not. First please excuse if my English is not the best.

I am in ketosis since 6 weeks +/-. First time in life. I bought a ketoscan mini, it was used and sold with guarantee, only about 40 tests of 300 done. I guess it should be OK - but you never know. Most reviews seem to be good, but some say it shows numbers that are far off.

I took measurements the whole day again and again from morning until the night and it was always between 75 and 89ppm. Of course a “warning” from the device… way too high.

I was a bit scared it could be signs of diabetes type 1. So I bought a blood sugar test device today and blood sugar is 84mg/dl.

I don’t know how to translate the ppm to the other measuring unit. But anyway you know the tendency.

I searched a bit in the forum here, and lots of people say “forget tests”. Some say “do blood tests”, others are OK with their breathing tests.

Due to those devices are calibrated after 300x using it, and the company has a good reputation, I guess normally the measurement should be correct.

Do you think something is wrong? Or just forget the numbers even if they are that high?

My background:

Man, 190cm, very skinny, “fast burner” / ectomorph (if you believe in bodytypes)

I didn’t do it for weight loss, but because of health issues, autoimmune disease and because I can’t take lots of food.

I lost so much (of my last weight that can be lost) in the last weeks, that I was really shocked realizing looking into the mirror. Seems like the last “fat”, mostly the organs / within the body, is leaving my body.

I did my research a bit in the internet, and some say for that bodytypes, perhaps it is better not to do keto. Or if you do keto, go up to 50gr carbs a day or even 75gr.

The question is if you would be in ketosis still. That’s why I bought the “Ketoscan” to monitor it.

I feel weak. In the beginning it was no wonder. First time keto in life: Keto Flu… but after 6 weeks I am still very weak. I feel a bit better than in the beginning but energy is missing a lot.

But I have lots of good results since then also. A lot is changing within.

Now of course I wonder, what to do. More fat? I have to do more workout and build muscles. So I would need lots of protein. To me it is hard to eat a lot. I never had a eating issue (eating too much), rather the opposite. So due to keto (3 weeks was carnivore) I have even less hunger. I have to force myself to eat more. Sometimes my gut feels sick, and my bowel also rebells. That’s why I tried keto in the first place, because some food I just can’t take.

Since I added some extra fat it warm drinks during the day it is a bit better.

The most important question, of course is, if the measurement results are a warning signal.

And if someone has some input on gaining weight, or has a similar bodytype/fast burning, if you would suggest to up the carbs a bit, perhaps about 50gr.

If you have experience with this, does it destroy your ketosis?

I was thinking about doing a “cheat day” once a week and see how the body reacts. So you keep your body “flexible” to work with food and you don’t loose too much weight when weight and muscles are needed. Sometimes even fat is needed, you know those feelings when you feel cold because you just have no “body armor”.

But if a cheat day means, that you feel “keto flu” 1-2-3 days a week… it wouldn’t make sense.

Thank you

Alexx

(Robin) #2

Whew. You have me stumped. I’m not even sure what your goals are.

First, I personally would stop constantly testing.
If your goal is not to lose weight, simply concentrate on eating real food and cutting out sugar.
Period.

Stick with just that for a few months, then tweak as needed.
Best of luck.
And welcome!

#3

Hello @robintemplin,

I appreciate your answer.
My goals, well I have a autoimmune disorder, also leaky gut and so on.
Bone broth f.e. seems to be a real life saver! That’s what I keep from carnivore for sure!

But also it is a try, to find out what can help me. I tried a lot the last years. Before I went “keto” I already did paleo for some months. Processed food I already left behind me some years ago.

So it is still finding out which foods are not good to me. I thought this might be “easy” if you do carnivore and slowly add one vegetable after another, or adding nuts and so on. But to be honest… it is a bit much to “handle” and note all the time, when your body is starving.

Lots of good things (mind wise) already happened since keto, but also the downsides, and this “frightening” 89ppm…

The change in the mental state could be due to leaky gut and bone broth, which seemed to help a lot till now.

Also I just want to have a healthy body and I rather have muscles (with workout) due to proteins than fatty organs even if I am skinny.

It is trial and error :slight_smile:

Sugar is already gone for a long time.

Thank you

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #4

Your approach and attitudes are good :blush:
As said, daily tests are not so important, HbA1c I like to know.
If you eat less than 20g carbs a day and your still breathing then your in Ketosis :joy:

(Allie) #5

Never heard of ketones being measured in ppms.
Maybe get a meter that uses standard measurements if you really feel the need to test, but it’s not necessary.

#6

Thanks! I have to figure it out. I don’t know yet what it is.

lol… the weakness plus the high measurements made me careful.

Well from the manual:

0 - 1,9ppm = no ketosis
2 - 3,9ppm = early ketosis stage
4 - 9,9ppm = ketosis
10 - 40ppm = optimal ketosis
41 - 60ppm = too much, already a “danger” (allegedly)
60 + = High Ketoacidosis danger “See your doctor immediately!”

The range of the device goes up to 99ppm… yesterday after my post I did a test again and had 97ppm

They have two devices, the cheaper one, its range is only up to 40ppm. The “mini” has a higher range to also know if you are “at risk”.

Thank you for your answers!

#7

Somehow I’m confused. My assumption is that autoimmune disease is triggered by certain substances in food. Through ketosis on its own I wouldn’t expect anything to change autoimmune-wise. If the approach is to try and exclude food that may cause issues, I’d start with excluding veggies since there seems to be evidence that these are more likely to trigger an immune response. So I’d try and go animal based + fruits to keep more weight on. I wouldn’t go for ketosis explicitly in your case since I don’t see any use.

If you say you want to radically exclude all food that might cause flareups, then this is understandable but given your situation this wouldn’t be my first choice. So again, I’d try animal based + fruits.

#8

Thank you for your reply!

Yes there is more to it. It is also a mental state that seems to be connected to the bowel. Since keto there was a huge effect, I actually don’t want to miss. I am more clear.

Why that is, I have no clue. I would have said simply “low carbs”. That the carbs, or too much of it, seem to influence my mental state!

But I have to find a middle way yes. Perhaps it was mostly the bone broth. Because I did both at the same time (keto/carnivore and bone broth) I am not so sure.

#9

Btw: Regarding meat:

Again and again I have to read the meat hightens the cancer and diabetes risk a lot. I have just seen a study of different Keto groups. Meat based keto diet, plant based keto diet, mixed diet and two others.

Only the plant based keto group that tried to eat as healthy as possible had a lower diabetes risk.
The meat based keto group had am 30% increase of diabetes risk.

But I know… not every study is done correct, or just numbers connected in a wrong way.

Since years I have the feeling you can’t trust any study you didn’t do by yourself…

Actually stupid to ask the question here, because I watched videos without an end about that issue some weeks ago. you come to no conclusion

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #10

That’s what they say, but it’s not actually what the studies they rely on actually say.

All too true, alas!

#11

Your mental state also does not necessarily improve just due to keto. It may improve due to you getting rid of the same immune triggers.

(Allie) #12

No different to eating veggies, just more sugar.

Actually it can and does, due to the fact that the brain, and microbiome, function better.

#13

Could you explain how exactly the state of ketosis has an effect on the microbiome?

(Allie) #14
#15

As far as I can see, this is about the effects of the diet itself. It involves all the food that you eat and don’t eat. The composition of macros induces ketosis but I don’t see how ketosis has an influence on the microbiome and I haven’t seen them describe a mechanism how ketosis (not the food in the Ketogenic diet) has an influence. So the food itself has an impact on the microbiome. Ketosis only changes how your metabolism works. This may indirectly have an impact on the microbiome composition.

In the case of OP I wouldn’t expect insulin level issues and therefore no elevated inflammation that is caused by such things. So intuitively for me it does not make sense that OP would benefit from ketosis. He might benefit though from a diet that does not involve certain allergens. This is the case for a Ketogenic diet but there might also be a non-Ketogenic diet that would help.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #16

Surely Ketosis and Diet and therefor microbiome are inextricably linked.
I can’t see of an occasion where a Ketogenic diet would not effect microbiome.

https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/17/3566

#17

Ectomorph’s are very interesting. Generally they have difficulty gaining weight and muscle mass. How are you measuring your “health issues” and autoimmune disease? Have the symptoms gotten better or worst? When you say that you have lost so much, how much? Test how many carbs you can eat before it knocks you out of ketosis.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #18

Your first point is very interesting. I take it, then, that you don’t hold with the people who advise us to eat certain foods to promote the health of our intestinal bacteria? Ketosis is a metabolic state in which fatty-acid metabolism is prioritised over glucose metabolism. The foods to produce this state are pretty much guaranteed to have a different effect on the microbiome from the effect of large amounts of dietary glucose, surely.

I think there are three factors that must be considered: the foods eaten (and the foods not eaten) on a ketogenic diet, the metabolic state of ketosis, and the presence of ketone bodies (versus their absence). We know that all three factors have effects on the body; I’m not sure that anyone really knows about their effects on our intestinal bacteria. Though the one thing we do know is that diet has a strong influence on the composition of the bacteria in our intestine.

The effects of ketone bodies on the human body are diverse. Eric Verdin and his team have done a lot to elucidate the epigenetic effects of β-hydroxybutyrate, and I read a fascinating paper (lost the reference, unfortunately) on the beneficial effects of acetone on brain chemistry (beyond its use as a fuel, I mean). I’d be willing to bet that there must be effects on our intestinal bacteria, as well, whether or not they’ve yet been studied.

#19

It is absolutely clear that food goes through the intestine and the bacteria there change depending on what kind of food is available for them to increase or decrease in number.

I also totally agree that ketones do have diverse effects on the body.

I have not seen a lot on ketones or the fact that you are burning fat through the changed metabolism having an impact on the bacteria. Those are other positive effects on our body. Yes, there may be studies that I missed or the studies just are not done yet.

OP wants to reduce inflammation. It can be caused by heightened insulin and other markers that overweight people present with. But OP is not overweight and I don’t expect him to have those elevated markers. That is why I say that maybe ketosis is not the thing to go for in this case.

Again, I try not to conflate ketosis and the ketogenic diet. They are linked but they are different things.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #20

You may be right, but don’t forget that elevated insulin causes systemic inflammation, and the excessive ω-6 intake in the standard American diet is also inflammatory. The former is directly addressed by going keto; the latter is addressed by the accompanying switch ketonians usually make, from industrial seed oils and processed foods to animal fats and whole real foods.