Keto macro accuracy for a newbie?

(Caitlin) #1

So I started Keto properly on Tuesday and I’ve been sticking to an absolute maxiumum of 30g of carbs a day including fibre (but I’ve been eating more around 20-25g and I haven’t worked out the “net” carbs so it might work out less than this) and so far so good. I’ve been peeing a lot today especially and from what I can understand, this is usually a good sign in the first few days?

But I digress, I’m finding it kind of hard to not go slightly over on my protein because of all the eggs, oily fish and meat I’m eating, so my actual question is how accurately do you have to stick to the macros? I’m eating an average of 1600-1700 cals a day, and normally get around 70-90 grams protein, with over 120-150g fat and <30g carbs. I’m also going to the gym several times a week and lifting weights, if that helps.

(Allan L) #2

Thats about average for me too. Usually below 100g and over 60g.

#3

My simple mantra is, “Minimal carbs, adequate protein, fat as needed (for satiety)”.

Primary goal is to keep carbs low.

Secondary goal is to make sure you get enough protein. Going over isn’t really a problem.

After that, fat and calories are a matter of how much energy you need, how hungry you are, and what your goals are (e.g. to lose weight).

#4

I’m having the same dilemma. I actually felt guilty last night because I was eating a steak (a small one) and I knew it would push me over my protein for the day.

In the end, my husband told me to stop worrying and just enjoy it! Besides, going over on protein is better than going over on carbs.

(Brandy Fischbach) #5

I’ve heard several different views on this. My husband has the same problem with eating too much protein. It has only been a problem a few times. We have noticed if he has a large amount of protein, he will not lose as much as the other weeks, but he has to go WAY over his protein for that to happen. Dr. Berg recommends around 3-4 oz of protein per meal.

(Chris W) #6

The macros are guides, they are there to help you understand in particular at this point how much you should be in taking. When you are new its not too big of a deal, you are probably not keto adapted yet that takes around 2 weeks for most people. They are also there to help you understand satiety, which although similar to being full is not the same. Its something that will take some weeks to develop, at which point you can understand when to stop eating fat a little better.
So the big macro at this point to hit is carbs, trying to keep that one as low as possible. The point of this is to stay in ketosis as long as possible to enable fat burning at the cellular level which can happen in around 8 weeks for most people.
Protein at this point in time if you go over depending upon your metabolic dysfunction, body fat and general health will not effect you terribly much. That said its not a free pass to eat everything in sight. If you are over or under in a given day its not big deal, and again the macros are guides. As I progressed my protein dropped and my fat went up, if you are metabolically challenged I would say its better to be on the high side for the moment to help your body repair itself.

Fat at only a couple days in is a little hard to wrap your head around, but you should really try and hit that macro as best you can. In a few weeks that will be your energy coming in and its more important then so its good to understand what you are taking in now. We like to say eat to your macros and then fat to satiety. At your level eat fat until full, you probably don’t have a satiety feeling yet but that helps you develop it.

The most important thing you can do at this moment is up your salt intake, and of course keep drinking water. As you are already seeing your body is dumping water, this will take salt with it, salt is pretty important on this WOE(way of eating) most people take in between 1-2 teaspoons a day. If you are feeling tired in the next few days try taking some salt to see if it helps.

I also do not recommend fasting, or restricting calories(fat in deficit) in the first month or two until fat adapted, that will make those easier if you choose to do them. You will loose weight and feel much better if you eat fat to your maintain macros.
KCKO

(Chris W) #7

Your body will convert extra protein that it cannot use to glucose, this will if eaten to excess shut down ketosis until all the glucose is burned through. In a way this can be worse than eating too many carbs(but not a large amount), because the effects can be longer lasting. It also depends on were you are on the keto spectrum, if you are fat adapted its not as big of a deal as when you first start when it can kick you out keto, make you feel bad, and delay fat adaption.

#8

How so? Gluconeogenesis is a demand-driven process, not a supply-driven one.

#9

I am NOT one who fears protein, I take in on average around 150-175g a day, but every time I read that statement it makes me laugh. What do you think your body does with extra dietary protein it doesn’t need and can’t store?

#10

Don’t “fear” protein, yes, you can over do it but most people don’t. If your like most people that are sensitive to it you’ll know it. I don’t see a small steak being an issue. What are you giving yourself for an allowance?

(Todd Allen) #11

I think it depends a lot on your state of health. If you are a type 2 diabetic or someone with hyperinsulinemia then getting your insulin down is important for improving utilization of ones body fat for fuel. The insulin sustaining effects of excess protein might slow that process. But there are plenty of people who do well on much higher levels of protein intake, especially those who are physically active.

Try to track how things are working for you and over time you can experiment with varying levels of macros and see what works best for your body and your goals.

(Chris W) #12

More or less you are correct, you will not have a unlimited glucose floating around in your blood like if you eat carbs, but you can shut down ketogensis, and you will have and increase in glucose in your blood stream. Will it be enough to trigger fat storage no not normally, but an increase over the basal rate that ketosis paired with GNG would normally maintain yes.
If you are in excess of protein the body will process it, there is only finite allowable supply of amino acids that can be circulating(amino acid pool). If other body processes are not , demanding those then they need to go somewhere. So the options are storage, or energy if you are catabolic your glucagon is higher, and your insulin is lower. This until insulin raises high enough will produce more energy than storage since glucagon is the primary driver of the catabolic processes. Most people in ketogenisis run at a glycogen diminished levels and that always wants to be recharged at the muscles. If you were to stay protein high for a long time then you would probably raise insulin long enough and high enough to to cause storage to kick in as well. I would say this not typical of one meal unless you are T2D in which case yes it is possible. It is one of the reasons we say to eat only medium protein.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #13

I’d like to throw this out there.

gluconeogenesis happens all the time, in everyone, everywhere. It seems to happen at a relatively consistent rate. I will get into some additional details on that rate later, but for now, the message is this – studies which have been conducted on humans are lacking, but those which have been done have shown that the rate of GNG does not materially change when protein content of the diet is manipulated.

So, I’m not sure it works like folks are saying it does.

(Chris W) #14

I think the primary pathway that most people who are fully adapted is that of glycerol being broken down when you are only burning lipids. Protein has so many uses that it will be used in large part before the liver will have an excess in the pool. That would be the substrate on hand that is the easiest to use. This would also be the a fairly low level, and result in low constant BG maintaining the floor level. I often think of ketones as a by product of GNG as the body would prefer to use the glucose if it could in most cases. The other thing to think about is that protein digestion takes for ever so its slow to come in.

Another thing that can be seen is if you up your fat intake by a large amount without changing or even lowering your protein intake you will also see a smaller rise in glucose. Again the body can either store it or use it, when it uses it via the liver at least the glycerol levels go up so more substrate is hanging around to be used. The body is elegant and efficient it wastes nothing.

(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #15

I have stuck to less than 20g of net carbs, but I’m consistently going WAY over my protein limit. Percentage-wise I’m on track, so this must mean that I’m just eating a ton of food lol. Still, I register in the nutritional ketosis range every day. I’m hoping that since I’m into weight lifting and exercise that my body is finding use for all this protein for building muscle and repairing tissues without turning much of it into glucose. I’m on my third week, and I’m kind of too hungry to eat less. Weirdly enough, I’ve lost weight over this time, so I’m not sure I want to change anything anyway.

#16

I see protein as a lower limit, not an upper limit.

And, IMO, percentages are next to worthless. 20 grams of carbs is a far different percentage for a 5’2 petite woman and a 6’5" “big-boned” man. And the need to ingest fat as fuel varies significantly between someone who carries a lot of fat and for someone that is lean.

(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #17

I really do eat a ton of everything right now. I’m looking at my carb manager app for yesterday. It shows as follows:

9g net carbs
18g total carbs
7g fiber
354g fat
232g protein
4281 calories

It’s crazy that I’m not gaining weight eating like this. I feel really good today too. I’ve been having some excellent workouts over the last few days.

#18

But eating too much protein will turn into glucose.

#19

You mean gluconeogenesis? That’s a demand-driven process, not a supply-driven one.

(Raj Seth) #20

My understanding is that excess protein, beyond what can be kept in the “amino pool” is deaminated and becomes carbohydrate for consumption