Karim's Extended Fast Tracker - come along for the ride

(Karim Wassef) #762

I was fasted from Saturday night to Tuesday night so three full days… I ate and took the berberine, bitter melon, ACV, MCT, Leucine, Bentofiamine but skipped the vitamin C (forgot it).

It’s all capsules:

To be fair & complete, I decided to add two more but they’re intended for other purposes:

Ashwagandha for stress and Yohimbe as a thermogenic.

I want to get adjusted so the carnivore experiment doesn’t suffer from the sudden changes I introduced in this fasting experiment with Leucine.

(Karim Wassef) #763

Unfortunately life is more complex than a lab. I do my best to control for confounding variables but I’m also trying to improve my performance and health…

So it’s a bit of a tug of war between the purist experimentalist and the lab rat trying to up his bench.

Maybe I’m still in mouse mode…


(Mame) #764

Thanks for all the answers. One more; how much? 1200mg berberine and 500mg bitter melon?

hopefully the effect is not synergistic…

(Karim Wassef) #765

2 berberine (recommended dose) and 1 bitter melon
But also 1 of the bentofiamine and 2 of the Leucine and a tablespoon of ACV and MCT. I would have taken 1 of the vitamin C.

(Karim Wassef) #766

I’ve used resveratrol, bentofiamine and turmeric/cercumin before but this feels much more potent

(Karim Wassef) #767

I forgot to share my numbers after lifting and sauna… so I went from

Pre-workout 64G, 4.5K = 0.79GKI
Post-workout 68G, 2.1K = 1.8GKI

lifting and sauna usually increase my glucose by 10 but it’s significantly diminished. The ketone drop of 2.4 is also much larger than my usual of ~1.5.

I also felt much better in the sauna today. More “… endurancey”… I know it’s not a word but you get the meaning I hope.

Other observations -

I usually can’t bench as heavy as I like because of my shoulder injury. The inflammation and pain makes me stop. But today, with the heaviest weight, I could barely feel it… that was unusual.

Also, after lifting, urine is a bright (almost fluorescent) yellow… so maybe I took too much?

A lot more energy and clarity. Calmness too.

I mention that because Leucine seems to impair clarity and calmness but promotes muscle building.

The combination of Berberine (AMPK promoter) and Leucine (mToR promoter) is very interesting.

(Karim Wassef) #768

Ok. I intentionally ate two choczero bars last night and 3 bowls of nuts… and three avocados… and half an onion… I increased my protein to double the night before. Probably 90g+ protein and 30g+ carbs… I’m now two days into eating…

So these results are shocking

(Karim Wassef) #769

Day 11, Phase 3 adaptive - eating

Other than the glucose being 70G instead of 55G, these are my deep fasting numbers (4.6K). 0.84GKI is autophagic but I’m actually eating as much as I can. Even my weight gain while eating is substantially blunted…

I feel great. But I am confused at the results.

(Karim Wassef) #770

I am sore from my lifting yesterday.

I did reverse pyramid bench sets to failure and I feel it. My whole body feels tight.

Muscles feel “itchy” inside.

Again very high energy.

(Karim Wassef) #771

Maybe I’m too excited about this - but no feedback on this? Has everyone experienced this already or just moved off the thread? :smiley:

(Mame) #772

:smiley: way to go for the dramatic reveal!

again fascinating. I wonder if the new supplements (or new supps + exercise increase) were enough of a change that they are driving the response… fasting numbers while eating = so cool
I was wondering how sore you would be today. I wonder how the next couple of days will play out. I did order the Berberine, I decided to not add the bitter melon at the same time to eliminate the synergistic possibility.

(Karim Wassef) #773

I am genuinely shocked. I’ve been keto and fasting for two years and I’ve never tried to break things this hard and still see a ketone level of ~5

It’s so unusual that I’m trying to study up on the mechanics of AMPK upregulation due to these supplements. If this is real, how is this not a massive commercial machine?

Is it temporary?

What would happen if I fasted AND took the supplements?

I’m going to try a 13hr dry fast until this afternoon (1am to 2pm)… just to see what happens…

Little concerned about hydration but I think it should be ok.

I’m even considering… eating a piece of bread!!! Just to see what happens…

(Karim Wassef) #774

Weight correction of ~1lb due to digestion

This is a pretty low weight after two days of consecutive eating.

With only 3 days left in this experiment and no fasting for the next 55 days, I’m contemplating a mini-experiment…

If I go by GKI on adaptive fasting, I’d have to reset the thresholds of 1-3 or else I may not fast again… so by adding these supplements, I’ve basically broken the adaptive fasting experiment… I got 10 days worth of data but it’s not really meaningful with these new variables.

Basically, my natural adaptive threshold based on keto vegan OMAD is 3 days fasting 2 days eating…

So. I think I’m going to try protein fasting until Saturday night. Basically, I’m going to drink my pea powder soup with ~100g of protein once a day and that’s it. There’s some fat with it but I’ll work out the macros later. The target will be to stay above 1.0 GKI and below 3.0GKI on this one protein drink a day with the supplements.

This isn’t true fasting since it’s ~500 calories a day but the protein is intended to offset the nitrogen loss and minimize lean mass catabolism. If I’m right, then I should see stable muscle (if not growth) & rapid fat catabolism simultaneously.

(Karim Wassef) #775

By the way, since this protein fasting is neither fasting or keto (not much exogenous fat), I expect to actually be very hungry (protein does that to me).

However, being fat adapted and already running at high ketones, I really don’t know.

Thoughts? Feedback?

(Karim Wassef) #776

Update. Lasted through the 13hr dry fast and it actually felt fine. I usually suffer during these fasts but this was much easier.

Interesting symptoms of muscle soreness. This isn’t just limited to the muscle groups I worked though. I feel it around my waist too. I really didn’t push my arms too much but they’re triggering like fireworks today.

The soreness around my waist is unusual given that I didn’t do any core exercises. But today, my TVA (transverse abdominal) and my obliques are sore. Lower back and abs not so much.

Normal digestive… no excessive thirst. No hunger at all so far.

Clear mind and calm.

I am experiencing a strange combination of high energy and reduced NEAT as well as fasting-like chills.

NEAT is basically non-exercise activity thermogenesis. It’s all the little things you do all the time that consume energy and boost your base metabolic rate… tapping your feet, fidgeting, etc… I find that those drop substantially when I fast and my motion becomes very controlled and deliberate.

Here, I’m getting the very deliberate motion mode (while fed) - so reduced NEAT like fasting.

Also the chills are like a shadow of fasting chills. I feel them, but they don’t bother me. Almost as if I’m getting both - thermogenesis to make more heat but vasoconstriction to limit blood flow. Like sitting by a fire in a very cold day. It’s an oddly comfortable feeling.

My whole body feels very “tight” and muscular. I noticed my bicep veins popping again yesterday and today - a sign of increasing vascularity. Again… hasn’t happened since college.

I’m wary that my body is going to quickly adapt so I feel I need to be prudent with the time I have to make good use of this effect.

(Karim Wassef) #777

Y’all are too quiet given the gravity of the situation


(Mame) #778

it’s the awe

(Karim Wassef) #779


I need good counsel and many minds are always better than one… :smiley:

(Karim Wassef) #780

I followed through on my pea protein soup

I think it’s pretty good given that it’s vegan based and I still got 120g of protein and 40g of fat.

I’m capturing all my glucose and ketone data to share a little later - but the trend is exactly what I had a few months ago after extended fasting - very high ketones in the morning and it gradually decreases as I exercise and stress my body.

Interestingly - I’m not hungry. I’m definitely not high fat and moderate protein, but with 3g of carbs, I would expect low insulin… except for the 120g of protein which is 0.85g/lb of lean mass…

Again, I am experiencing the same symptoms as I have in the last couple of days - I feel like I’m fasting, even the faster heart rate that I can feel in my chest… the combination of chills and warmth without discomfort. normal digestion without excessive thirst. lots of energy.

(Karim Wassef) #781

So I think the 120g of protein did the trick. It brought me to 94G, 1.4K so ~ 3.7GKI.

Then again, the overall ketone trend based on a hectic day was already showing rapid ketone depletion. It recovered slightly just before the pea soup and then it dropped again following its daylong slope.

Curious to see what tomorrow morning will bring both in terms of weight and ketones.

I’m also going to cut back to a lower protein soup… maybe 50g instead of 120g. We’ll see what that does, I’m also not planning on sauna or UV, just some lifting.

Two days left … Friday and Saturday.

And yes- I did prick my finger 8 times today to see what’s going on… for science… :smile: