Karim's Extended Fast Tracker - come along for the ride

[CaptainKirk]

Excellent Reply.
I kinda agree. that’s why I went to eating MWF. Because my biggest progress was always the 72hr fasting over the weekend.

Going to M&F is a tough shift. I am within a stones throw (English joke, and I am not English) of my weight. Just been here for a bit too long IMO. If I can’t make 190 by end of April, I will give up on my goal, and basically only track to prevent backsliding.

With M&F Eating, I wont restrict much.

Curious, on your fasting days, do you do Coffee? Any BPC or Cream in the coffee?
I usually do ONE BPC in the morning, but I sometimes skip it like the other day. I just hate
the coffee black. LOL.

[Karim_Wassef]

I do coffee for 6 days… I always skip Sunday to give my body a chance to not adapt.

I don’t add fat except for a squirt of MCT to “stoke the fat burning”.

I do focus on electrolytes and mitochondria.

I always take potassium and magnesium supplements. I also add iodine, zinc and copper in very small doses.

Then I take CoQ10 supplement and add raw cacao in my coffee with ACV and salt. The cacao has a chemical called PQQ. The combination of CoQ10 and PQQ boosts mitochondria reproduction and growth rate.

My morning coffee has cacao, ACV, salt and MCT with a splash of stevia (sometimes). No other fats.

I’ve also been adding Leucine and Carnitine in controlled doses as an experiment to reduce lean mass loss while fasting.

[Karim_Wassef]

Ending the first day at 55G, 3.2K = 0.95 GKI…

So - that was faster than I thought given that I was at 0.9 just 24hrs ago.

I thought I would get to Wednesday before getting into autophagy but I guess my body is getting very adapted to fasting and quickly shifts back in.

Of course, I really think my combination of drivers is working well.

Lifting, Sauna, UV, cold = energy sinks
ACV = glucose reducer
MCT, Leucine = ketone enhancers

So - I will just have to keep lifting to avoid losing fat faster than lean mass.

[RightNOW]

Glad you’re doing the experiment. Because I certainly won’t be taking freezing showers for the cause anytime soon.

[Karim_Wassef]

It’s not that bad once you set your mind to it. There’s a technique to it.

Cold packs are an easier approach.

[Karim_Wassef]

Day 2, Cycle 2, Phase 2

So 8.6lbs down in a single day. I’m breaking records going up and down… just massive water and still some food flux. That’s about 5% of my body weight.

That is the single biggest drop I have ever experienced in 24hrs though… big drops are usually in the 6lb range, so this is ~1.5 times my historic record.

I took as much salt as I could and drank as much water as I could but I was constantly peeing it back out.

I’ve been wondering why I retained so much water on this refeed and I think it was the food I was eating…

I love spinach the way my wife makes it with onions and tomato sauce and it’s still low carb but it’s very high fiber. I’m usually cautious with spinach because I’ve had kidney stones from oxalates. Given how adaptive my body is, I expect that my kidneys need a lot of water flow to flush those chemicals out - another reason I’m carnivore most of the year.

I think this is also why my smart scale can’t really use hydration and give me a meaningful bf%…

It thinks I lost 3.5lbs of lean mass… pretty meaningless.

Should have made a bet on how large the first day fast change would be…

So that’s 1.44 GKI - back in the target zone.

[Karim_Wassef]

Ending day 2 … night reading

52G, 4.3K = 0.67GKI so deep into autophagy within 48hrs of eating twice (a lot) Sunday night and dropping to 0.9K…

Still had some food flux so I’m predicting ~ 2lbs down tomorrow. This is why I don’t see the first two days as real fasting… still technically digesting food

I’m experiencing a strange sensation of heartburn… I think it’s the Leucine but I don’t really know.

Interesting thought today… I’m considering adding vitamin C as a glucose depressant (like ACV). I’ve known about this effect but never really considered it.

https://nutritionreview.org/2019/02/vitamin-c-lowers-blood-sugar-levels-and-blood-pressure-in-type-2-diabetes/

Still not sure if intentionally lowering glucose like this is good or bad…

It could be good because it forces most organs to be much more dependent on ketones reducing the need for glucose.

It could be bad because it may stimulate gluconeogenesis scavenging lean mass… more autophagy.

But that may be a good thing because I can refeed and rebuild with rejuvenated tissue…

…

[RightNOW]

Vitamin C also reduces cortisol.

Prior to my nearly keeling over some years ago I wrote this long introduction to all-about-vitamin-C, some history, and liposomal vitamin C. Get that form if you get C, it’s best.

Due to the whole 70% loss of oxygen/nutrients to brain thing, I don’t remember a lot about it now, but I trust what I wrote at the time.

HyperNutrient

[Karim_Wassef]

Wow… just wow

[RightNOW]

Because I had a kid, we watched The Princess Bride SO many times that we had nearly the entire script memorized. For years – till she was nearly an adult – we couldn’t even have someone near us say, “Look!” without us parroting back in unison, “THE CLIFFS OF INSANITY!”

[RightNOW]

It’s not that bad once you set your mind to it. There’s a technique to it.

Cold packs are an easier approach.

When I lived in L.A. circa 87-89 (went there to be a rock star, got distracted), I was living in Gardena, working in Culver City, my dojo was in Redondo Beach, and my night/weekend school was in Tarzana. I was commuting 4.5 hours daily on some of the worst highways in the nation. I was sleeping about 4, 4.5 hours a night. I only had time to eat once a day at del taco at 1:30am right before bed. (I gained about 200# in less than two years. That was as much a lipedemic response as just an ordinary response, I think.) Anyway so in the morning I was so profoundly exhausted that I would just step into an icy shower, no hot water at all, to help myself wake up before I went driving in that condition. And… I would fall asleep. Standing up. In an ice-cold shower. Sheesh!

But they were still miserable. Just not miserable ENOUGH apparently. Still I swore that I would never suffer freezing showers again if I could help it!!

[RightNOW]

I’m considering adding vitamin C as a glucose depressant (like ACV).

So just in theory say you were going to eat something very carby. Say you had a variety of things known to lower blood sugar. Would it be better to take them before… during… or after, your eating?

[Karim_Wassef]

I haven’t thought of it in the context of vitamin C while eating. I need to study the mechanism of the vitamin C and glucose competition to be able to answer.

I was thinking about it during fasting to get into ketosis faster.

Maybe because I was able to get to 4 in 2 days from 1, I’m curious about other variables that can accelerate it even more. Competing with my current rate?

Also I’m just curious… someone was asking about how to get deeper into autophagy without fasting as long and this list of variables seems to be part of the answer.

[Karim_Wassef]

Day 3, cycle 2, phase 2

So I was wrong again… I lost much more than I thought…

That’s 5 lbs in a day after losing 8.6 the previous day for a total of 13.6 since Monday morning (48 hrs).

My heartburn is getting stronger, not better.
I have no chills at all.
I feel weaker, tired
I am more anxious, probably due to the heartburn. Poor calmness.

Hovering around 1GKI so still in autophagy

[Karim_Wassef]

I have to admit that my rate of loss is a little concerning even given that’s its comparable to my weight gain during refeed.

The flipping back and forth feels exhausting on the downturn. I hope it was just day 2 discomfort - it’s usually the worst.

This cycle feels like my second week on the extended fast … almost as if the refeed didn’t happen and my body has metabolically picked right up where it left off in cycle 1. Maybe even more extreme.

Mental clarity is not as good. It’s “divergent”… my inner mind is clear (visual thinker) but my ability to articulate and remember specific terms is handicapped…

[Don_Q]

That’s 5 lbs in a day after losing 8.6 the previous day for a total of 13.6 since Monday morning (48 hrs).

Holy cow! How many carbs are you eating per day (gross & net). When I’m carnivore I get a 2-3lb swing, and when I’m eating 10g-20g I get about a 4-5lb swing. 13.5lbs is huge!

It’s going to be hard to keep electrolytes balanced with that much water loss.

[Karim_Wassef]

I wasn’t keeping count during the refeed but I was still Keto. Most of the carb content is fiber from seeds, nuts and veggies.

Maybe I’ll work up a breakdown for the three meals I had over the weekend

I increased my salt and potassium intake to compensate… almost doubled actually yesterday

[Don_Q]

Mental clarity is not as good. It’s “divergent”… my inner mind is clear (visual thinker) but my ability to articulate and remember specific terms is handicapped…

This used to happen to me every single time I did an extended fast prior to switching from a carb based diet to strict keto. It could be that the presence of carbs even in the digestive track inhibit the body’s willingness to start burning bodyfat and RMR takes a dive.

What you’re describing also just happened to me on my last 84hr fast for the first time in 10 weeks. Megan Ramos over at the IDM clinic talks a lot about “fasting burnout” and I’m wondering if this is an early sign. In fairness, it was my 15th 84hr fast since New Years, so I guess I shouldn’t be too surprised if that’s what it is. Interestingly, it showed up in my RMR data as a drop from a normal 2000kcal/day down to 1700kcal/day. I’ll be starting a 2 week break where I just eat ad libitum with no fasting to see if I can’t reset things a bit. I’ll let you know how that works out.

[Smartypants1274]

I, being newer to keto, find the documentation really interesting. I just found it and have been catching up. I wish more people would document their extended fasts daily since I think it would be interesting to compare notes.

[Karim_Wassef]

I’m glad it’s useful.

I’m like the scientist and the lab rat - taking notes and data from a detached 3rd person viewpoint while also running through the maze.

I also feel that capturing the daily changes and challenges helps - a lot.

It’s not a diary… more like an explorer’s journal

“This morning on the savanna, we were woken to the sound of lions in the distance” …

Or Lewis and Clark…

Speaking it out loud and putting it down on paper really takes a lot of the burden off.