Karim's Extended Fast Tracker - come along for the ride


(Cindy ) #322

Karim, I wondering about all that pre fast feasting you did prior to starting… was that necessary? Have you considered not doing that and maybe doing 10 day fasts with a refeed and repeat?


(Karim Wassef) #323

The pre-fast feasting wasn’t really necessary. I wanted a bit of cushion and frankly, I wanted to see how much I could gain while still being in ketosis. So it was a bit of an experiment too.

I do think that the frequency of feed and fast (days each and periodicity) is key. Also - what I eat and how much I eat matters too. That’s why I collect so much data so I can track my body’s response to each scenario.

So far, the data points to fasting 5+ days being good for autophagy, but fasting 3-4 days with moderate feasting for the remaining days of the week is better for fat loss.

I have no idea yet what works for loose skin.

I will say that I find myself needing mid-day naps even though I’m intermittent fasting (OMAD) and eating daily. I feel great but sometimes my body just zonks me out and goes to task doing something. It may be regenerating the lost lean mass like a growing baby?

I have the distinct impression that what I eat after the fast is as critical to longevity and health as the fasting was. It’s like remodeling a house… after the kitchen tear down, you want some good quality materials to last a lifetime (or until the next tear down).


(Karim Wassef) #324

How high will it go back? Anyone’s guess… :smiley:

Last night, I ended at 89G, 1.7K, 2.90GKI
This morning, I was at 75G, 1.8K, 2.31GKI
Pre-workout, I’m at 74G, 3.6K, 1.14GKI

FASCINATING that I can gain from 168 to 183 ~ 15lbs in 4 days while ketones are over 1.5 and GKI is under 3…

I am still doing OMAD vegan but over 50g carbs. Today I get back to keto limits of 20g or less. I’m sure the Insulin and Leucine combo are working up a storm… so some fat cell rejuvenation is happening too. :joy:

But they’re younger healthier fat cells.

I know it’s insulin because I’m hungry again and that’s the insulin breaking my satiety and funneling my intake into fat cells… but I will liberate the incarcerated lipids shortly. :smiley:

I couldn’t reschedule the DEXA for Friday but still trying for the earliest time possible. It might have to be next week :frowning:

Just a quick update. I think this signals the end of the inter-phase feeding. Today and this week I did commit to eat but it’ll be strict keto OMAD vegan… and fasting again starting Monday.

I would have started today but she cooked enough for the whole week and I promised to eat each and every day… I didn’t say how much or what I’d eat though!! Ha ha!


(Doug) #325

I think you’re there, Karim, despite the slope of that line. 4 days, 15 lbs - hey, that ought to be it. Okay, maybe another pound and another day, but gotta be right on it. You were “ahead of the curve” with the pounds lost during your fast, in my opinion - even just water weight, and you’ve regained it fast, as well.


(Karim Wassef) #326

My wife says I do everything with intensity and passion (wasn’t saying it in a good way, so I paraphrased)… but I can gain weight with gusto!

Frankly, I indulged in tahini which is still technically a good keto food, but still…


3g per spoon x 5 spoons ~ 15g

And two avocados a day


4g per x 2 ~ 8g

And did I mention the half cup of pumpkin seeds?
22g per cup x 0.5 cups ~ 11g

And then a cup of macadamia and almonds and another half cup of pecans!!

I’m proof that even a carnivore can gain weight while in ketosis eating nuts and seeds. I have no idea of the composition of said weight gain, but there it is.

Wife also believes that I’m taking it out on the poor nuts and seeds because I’m not getting eggs, steak and bacon… I say it’s just math and I need the branch chain amino acids and fats… I get “the look”…


(Karim Wassef) #327

Post workout and sauna… 75G, 1.2K, 3.47GKI

I think this is a good example where the GKI is misleading. The energy consumed drained my ketones faster than my liver could replenish… so the GKI is “for a short interval” artificially high. I think I’m more deeply autophagic in this state but the numbers don’t reflect it “yet”.

That’s my interpretation anyway.

Also - much stronger today.


(Karim Wassef) #328

Just rediscovered this

I know some people on here don’t like siim but I think he’s cool.

He came up with the same conclusion I did… low intensity exercise while fasting… not HIIT or cardio for maximum ketone consumption and muscle excitation.

I added the Leucine & Carnitine element though.


(Karim Wassef) #329


(Windmill Tilter) #330

Nice! Well, I reckon that’s the top then. What a drop! :grinning:


(Karim Wassef) #331

So 193lb to 179lb… so I’d say 14lbs of the 25lbs was real.

Also… the bounce is probably the digestive flow coming back to normal…


(Windmill Tilter) #332

I stand by my original estimate. I don’t know how the heck DEXA could be wrong about fat, but I think 9.5lbs will be closer than the 5.2lbs the DEXA claimed when you do the follow-up scan.

24.8 lbs lost=
Fat: 9.5lbs
Lean Mass: 3.8 lbs
Water: 11.5

I could be wrong about all that of course but, those are the numbers that make sense to me and I’m hopeful. It’s going to be really interesting to see what the refed DEXA looks like. I’d pay money to see the look on the technicians face when he compares the 2 charts taken just a week or so apart. Not everybody can gain 15 pounds in a couple of days. Take a pic of his baffled look to share back here at the ranch. :yum:


(Karim Wassef) #333

He still isn’t taking the appointment! :laughing:


(Karim Wassef) #334

Decided to repost here since it applies to both our threads :slight_smile:

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/don-tries-the-obesity-code-and-body-by-science-and-is-surprised/79146/83?u=karim_wassef


(Doug) #335

Things have oscillated around some, but it sure looks to me like they are stabilizing, Karim. Yesterday’s 183 lbs. was 11 less than beginning at 194, and I would have predicted 10 or 11 lbs. of fat loss for a 19 day fast, considering your initial weight and activity level.

At this point, it’s mainly the mix of fat and lean tissue lost that remains to be clarified, no? If 14 lbs down is where you end up, then - still going with what I assume to be true for us in general - there’s the further question of what constitutes the lean mass you did lose. That’s going to be hard to answer, exactly, I think. Protein breakdown falls off dramatically during fasting, considering any and all sources, down to less than an ounce per day, like 15 to 20 grams. I’ve never seen anything definitive for longer fasts, but over a 70 day period with alternate-day fasting, the average in fat-free mass lost was 0.1 kg.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1038/oby.2010.54


(Karim Wassef) #336

Thanks Doug.

Yes, understanding the composition is the last remaining part… 14lbs of fat, lean muscle, lean non-muscle…?

Day 6 of the transition. Woke up at 60G, 2.9K, 1.15GKI.

I’ve been eating every single day since I broke my fast and pushing 70g of carbs until last night (back under 20g).


(Karim Wassef) #337

The only window for the next DEXA is next Thursday. Unfortunately that would be 4 days into phase 2 and could potentially inject error into a refeed DEXA view of phase 1.

Three options:

  1. Continue to eat another week to get a relatively clean DEXA… :frowning:

  2. Start Phase 2 with 4/3 fasting and take the DEXA on Thursday knowing it’s at the end of the first fasting cycle of that phase.

  3. Start Phase 2 with 4/3 fasting and take the DEXA next week after refeeding (Fri, Sat, Sun) knowing it’s at the end of the first fasting cycle of that phase but with refeeding as a correction.

What do you guys think?


(Doug) #338

Sounds like you don’t want to continue eating, Karim - I’d say wait until after refeeding after the next fast, or even wait until you eat for a longer period, somewhere in the future.


(Karim Wassef) #339

Decided to go halfway between options 2 and 3. I’ll fast, eat 2 days then test on Saturday 4/6…


(Karim Wassef) #340

Ok. I just can’t eat every day any more. I need a break. Since I’m going to have a fasting cycle before the DEXA anyway, I’m going to take a break and fast my usual Wed, Thurs, Friday this week and eat Saturday and Sunday.

Then I can start the proper 4 day fast next week Mon-Thursday. Eat Friday and the DEXA next Saturday. That would be more representative of my normal fasting/feeding lifestyle anyway.


(Karim Wassef) #341

Since I’m starting phase 2 a little earlier than promised (yes, I know I said I’d eat for a week), I wanted to run a quick summary and a new view of the plan:

First, the tracker:

and here’s the GKI tracker

and the long term, GKI for perspective

and here’s the new plan: