Just like everyone said in my research

science
fasting
extendedfast

(Kimbrie Sauvageau) #1

So this weekend was my first rodeo literally. I did so much research and chose to start my program off with a 48 hour fast. I knew it wasnt the safest or smartest plan in the room, but a fasting I did go. Yesterday mid morning my 48 hours was up and I felt really great actually so I opted to shoot for 72. I havent been hungry at all, drinking my recommended 115oz of water, so I didnt see any reason to not keep going. Since I came across this lifestyle, I have been very intrigued by extended fasting, I am 100 pounds overweight, I need to see results and quickly or I will totally wash out. So last night I go to try and sleep, not only am I wide awake for 7 hours trying desperately to get some sleep, but I canā€™t stop fidgeting and kept waking my poor husband up. I knew to expect this, have seen it mentioned a few places. My concern is how long will it llast? I am not going to divert from my 48/12 plan if I end up with insomnia during the end of my fast I will deal with it. I refuse to fail, I refuse to cut corners, and i will not give up. I gave up bread, my beloved IPA, and my shameful constant fast food gorging without a second thoughtā€¦it was so great but also very unexpected. I know I am in the honeymoon phase and there will be many times my resolve will be tested, so I have to stay focused. My fear is I will never be capable of attempting a true extended fastā€¦3 days is nothing compared to some I have seen. I think the desire to defeat a 21 day fast is more about testing my resolve and ability than about weight loss. I know the weight will come off. I want to effect real change and truly grow as a person as I face such challenges. I guess I just would like some feedback from anyone who happens to have the timeā€¦thank you and good luck


(Susan) #2

Just do not starve yourself. Fasting is awesome, but you need to feed your body too.
I had a 2.5 month stall from fasting constantly and only eating 1000 or less calories on my eating days. I am on a new protocol now doing this:

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If you really want to do Fasting, maybe this would be good for you too =). But please make sure you are eating about maybe 1800 calories on your eating days. I am doing 1pm Lunch and 4:30 pm supper on my eating days as I like doing 20:4 IF but that took me a while to get to that point.

Maybe read through my accountability thread and you might find some helpful ideas =). Best wishes!!


(Kimbrie Sauvageau) #3

Hi Susan :grin: I guess the never occurred to me that it is starving because I havent felt at all hungry. I do appreciate your suggestion and I realize I am walking a pretty thin line here. I was going to do 48/12 but yours is pretty similar and I will bow to your experience and expertise on this one. To be totally honest, it has been a very freeing experience to be able to turn away from these unhealthy habits and not regret it in the leastā€¦wish I could have done this years ago. So I think I might be holding on to the fast for that reason, because it feels good, in a way I canā€™t really explain but feel I really dont need toā€¦enjoy your day! :yum:


(Bob M) #4

Iā€™m a real glutton. On the days I eat, I can easily eat two pounds of ground beef, well over 2000 calories. And I only fast one 36 hour time per week.


(Susan) #5

We are all different, Bob, and that certainly seems to work for you, so that is great!

Kimbrie and I are females, and (as I am sure you realize too from being on the forum for a while) our bodies seem to do things a bit differently then the men in general =).

I try to eat about the 1800 on my feeding days, and doing this new protocol to mix things up and get the scales moving again, as they have been stagnant for a while. I am also doing dairy free since Oct 18 until Nov 30, but that is a personal thing I am doing to see if dairy is causing trouble for me, so I didnā€™t include that in the ideas I suggested to Kimbrie as dairy might not adversely affect her at all!


(Kimbrie Sauvageau) #6

Boy I hope notā€¦I can give up bread and beer, but I need cheese in my life, no contest :grin:


(Kimbrie Sauvageau) #7

I am looking forward to only eating 1500 calories on non fast days. For having certain things I can and cant eat as well as an amount I have to stick to if I am to reach my goal. I have spent a good part of my life having such an undisciplined and unhealthy relationship with food. I just ate whatever I wanted and I wasnt choosing carrot sticks. I think healthy eating habits, along with regular exercise is something I always dreamed of being. I am super excited, this is why this WILL work for meā€¦and you and you and you


(Bunny) #8

I have a bit of corner cutter to share but not to much information on whether or not it could be considered fasting per say as it does not effect your ketones; it actually makes more ketones at least that you can see in the blood with a meter and lowers glucose utilization; it is called resistant starch and using a little bit of it because it is something you have to adapt too or you will get a lot of gas if your not use to it?

What is interesting is that resistant starch helps you sleep really well (the most deepest satisfying sleep one can experience even when fasting) but it does it a little differently it is called polyphasic sleep cycles in other words you sleep only for 4 hours and then sleep again another 4 hours (how people use to truly sleep in polyphasic cycles; historical literature of antiquity) but when your fasting, adrenalin and the cortisol in the adrenalin along with the HPA axis is going to put you in survival mode; so your going to need less sleep; the resistant starch seems to calm that effect because you are feeding the butyrate or ketone producing gut microbiome[1] which is creating another type of autophagy in your gut microbiome simply because it is creating ketones and perhaps improving its composition also while in a fasted state without compromising your autophagy or other reasons for your fasting in my opinion.

In other words you can force the mitochondria in your liver to produce and use ketones for energy through caloric restriction, time restricted eating and fasting extensively or intermittently but the only way to force your gut microbiota to do the same is by feeding it resistant starch that they can digest to produce butyrate a ketone body just like your liver can produce so how that could hurt a persons autophagy makes no sense because you are creating a symbiosis or synergism with your microbiome?

We mostly think of our gut bugs as part of our body but they are separate and distinct entities that keep us alive, they cannot live without us nor can we live without them, yet they are not really part of us as they can die and multiply by the billions without killing the host and up to a certain extent try to harm the host and have different needs?

In other words what Iā€™m trying to say here is that you can place your liver into ketosis but not your gut bug microbiome so in a sense they will be working against you without the resistant starch to feed them and make ketones for their own autophagy[1]?

I would also pay close attention to the quality and source of the resistant starch you choose to use when fasting, making it your-self would probably be the best option because you know exactly whatā€™s in it and where it was grown and the soil composition ect?

Footnotes:

[1] ā€œā€¦Autophagy is an important catabolic recycling pathway that degrades long-lived proteins and some organelles by lysosome to maintain cellular homeostasis. ā€¦ā€ ā€œā€¦The findings suggest that intestinal autophagy plays a vital role in modulating the diversity and composition of gut microbiota. ā€¦ā€ ā€¦More

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(Bob M) #9

Itā€™s not you, Susan, itā€™s everyone here. The amount I see people eating seems ā€“ to me ā€“ to be not sustainable. When I see people eating 1,000 calories, 1,500 calories, per day, and I eat that for lunch, I begin wondering. And I see it all the time on this board. Are they really eating that few calories? If so, how?

You never see people saying ā€œI ate 2,000 calories at lunchā€. Yet Iā€™m sure it happens. Why? Are we as a board trying to eat less? Are we lying? Or can people really get by on a feast day with 1,800 calories? Thatā€™s apparently true.

But then I wonder why I canā€™t. Youā€™re fasting way, way, way more than I am, and not eating anywhere near what I am on a feast day. Granted, youā€™re a woman, and Iā€™m a man. But Iā€™m still overweight (just got out of the ā€œobeseā€ category per crappy BMI), with really not that much muscle mass per DEXA scan.

So, why the difference in calories? Again, itā€™s not you ā€“ itā€™s everyone. I rarely, if ever, see calories I think are realistic. Maybe itā€™s just that people who eat ā€œa lotā€ on their feast days donā€™t report that? Kinda like the people who fill out food frequency questionnaires, who lie about what they eat to make more ā€œcorrectā€? We donā€™t want to actually say what weā€™re eating?

Iā€™m about to start tracking my calories. If I have time, Iā€™ll report this, so people can see what a glutton I am.


(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #10

Or maybe people who eat more calories arenā€™t tracking, just eating to satiety. Or even if they track, they are doing fine, so donā€™t post amounts because they feel like they are on track?

Iā€™m I 5ā€™4 woman. I suspect that I often go over 2000 calories. But I have no way of knowing for sure. :wink:


(Bunny) #11

Had to grab one of your questions so I can get into this a little deeper from the gut microbiota end of the spectrum.

Letā€™s take our standard store bought ice cream for instance loaded with sugarā€¦ok now that we know we are going to eat lot of sugar?

We move onto the effect that sugar has on our blood sugars, in one person their glucose will just mysteriously drop (or remains steady or the same) and the other person their blood glucose sky rockets and maybe insulin also?

Whatā€™s going on with that?

It is most likely in my opinion that the persons whoā€™s glucose drops (or remains steady or the same) is because they are producing more butyrate from the types of food they are eating that contain resistant starches or more resistant starches and the gut flora microbiota that is balanced out from the production of butyrate.

The person who does not have more butyrate producing bacteria in their gut is the one in whoā€™m the blood glucose is going to sky rocket in?

In other words sugars are being oxidized before they bypass the gut wall and go directly into the blood stream?

If not resistant starch; you could constantly eat grass fed butter and hope for the same results?


(Jack Bennett) #12

When Iā€™m doing OMAD (during the week), Iā€™m positive I break 2500 kcal for my one meal.

Sample menu:
2 eggs
4 oz string cheese
2 cups beef burrito bowl (ground beef, salsa, sour cream)
Protein shake (60 g protein powder, 2 tbsp MCT oil, creatine)
Almonds or macadamias (a few handfuls)

Itā€™s pretty filling and works well for OMAD.


#13

I am like you. I eat. I can easily eat 2-3K per day and lose weight. female here :slight_smile: and I never force a fast on myself ever.
thing is my eating makes for natural fasting times cause I am SO not hungry LOL so it balances out but I find my natural easy fasts are so much easier cause they are naturalā€¦not a scheduled I am doing this no matter what and have only willpower to rely on.

this is just what works for me. not saying what otherā€™s are doing is not right :slight_smile: years of trial and error means I found the best path for me personally. Eat and thrive naturally without worry.


#14

Jack you put that into a calorie count and it ainā€™t near 2.5K in calories
not that menu unless your sour cream and protein shake are thru the roof on kcals.


(Bob M) #15

@atomicspacebunny You might as well give up telling me about the biome. I literally do not believe in the biome. I believe the biome adjusts to whatever we as humans eat (or donā€™t eat). If thatā€™s not the case, we would not exist now.

@ajbennett Iā€™m glad to hear that at least someone else eats something. Today, I had 4 eggs, maybe 12 ounces of fish, 1/2 container of canadian bacon, salsa, olives, sour cream. I meant to get more exact, using calorie counting, but didnā€™t have the time today.


(Bob M) #16

This is an example of a day:

1,000 caloriesā€¦just in meat. Does not include anything else.


(Bunny) #17

Really, so your saying it does not exist?

Interesting because that is exactly what my posts were about?

Your too funny :slightly_smiling_face::rofl::+1::rofl::slightly_smiling_face::joy::rofl::slightly_smiling_face:


(Jack Bennett) #18

My arithmetic may be off.

The beef is pretty fatty (20%, or I use butter if itā€™s lean), so thatā€™s about 1000+ kcal for that (around 0.8-1.0 lb). Sour cream adds maybe 100-200 kcal.

Eggs - 75 kcal x 2

String cheese - 100 kcal x 4

Protein shake - 250 kcal for the protein and 300 kcal for the oil

Nuts - unknown but probably around 500

Say 1200 + 150 + 400 + 550 + 500 = 2800

This is mostly a wild guess, although some of the estimates (labeled food like cheese) are better than others.


(Bob M) #19

You rattle on about things like resistant starch, which I tried and failed with.

Please just stop about the biome. Itā€™s meaningless, in my opinion.


(Bunny) #20

That could be possibly attributed to comprehension and not really understanding what your doing with it and maybe you did not try hard enough? Of course you can just eat meat or over-eat meat and pretend all is well and just burn sugar?

ā€œmeaninglessā€ some how that translates into ā€˜lazinessā€˜ in my opinion although those are two different connotations?