Judgement and Disappointment

(back and doublin' down) #26

yep! I spent hours and hours here as a beginner. Great support, clarification and learning happened. then I drifted away, still with keto as a WOE. Now I’m back. And immediately got the support and encouragement I was hoping for. Kinda like I walked back into the bar and found the regulars ready to welcome me with no criticism or complaint.

We do all come from different places with different perspectives and how we interpret other’s comments is our responsibility. If what someone says offends you, maybe ask yourself why?

Love this place and hope all feel a similar sense of acceptance and support.

(hottie turned hag) #27

“Hey, Norm!” :smiley:

#28

You didn’t see his insulting and unecessary post on another thread earlier.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #29

Please link.

#30

Sure. My reply is just below.

#31

Month 11 here and the same. There is so much good information here. It was extremely helpful at the beginning, and continues to be so. I come and go and don’t post a lot, but I read a ton and I appreciate the community. Oh sure, from time to time folks get knickers in a twist, but overall it is a very supportive environment.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #32

Given the context of the several preceding comments in that topic I agree with you that Bob’s “You people are truly obnoxious” ‘was uncalled for and unecessary’ as you stated. Although I think I can understand why he made it. I’m not carnivore so I don’t follow carnivore issues much so that topic was not of much interest to me. But there seems to be a rather elevated intensity about some matters.

That particular comment is different from what he posted in this thread which prompted my response to Fangs. As you so well noted, it’s one thing to disagree with someone’s opinion, interpretation and/or statements which Fangs is free to do. It’s quite another thing to start a pissing contest about it with the apparent attempt to shut him up. Bob is entirely free to express his opinions about carnivores objectively which I think he did here. Anyone else is entirely free to disagree, but not tell someone else just to shut up. That’s what I objected to. And that’s what Fangs has tried to do in his/her response to me as well.

#33

Yep. Overall this forum has been a very positive thing for me. I don’t want to see it degrade into the abyss like facebook groups. I deleted my fb account in large part because of that negativity. My point in sharing that post was context as to why some folks were annoyed with him today. I had my say on that issue and unless it continues I am done with it.

My personal take is that if you are against carnivory just stay off those threads.
I used to be a veggie so I stay off threads and conversations promoting that way of life. I love keto but it didn’t fix everything I needed to fix so I still comment on keto stuff because I’m very pro-keto.

Just starting Carnivore - suddenly feeling repulsed by meat / or even perhaps all food
#34

I sure never said that. I didn’t infer that either but if that was your take, then that was your take on it. What shocked me was the cruelty factor of the post written.

I also never told you that :slight_smile: truly if you read my post you called my post nonsense. So if you want your post respected you sure have to give it back or you aren’t getting it from me.

I am fine with it AM…all cool. I am not wasting my time further on this child nonsense from a cruel comment. Bowing out of it all is what is best for my sanity on needless mean comments.

(John) #35

Plenty of good info here. I just mute the threads that are of little or no value to me, or pass them by entirely.

Sometimes people get focused on a particular point of view, because it is what works for them, and some alternate approach very definitely did NOT work for them. So they can get fairly vocal about what NOT to do, because it was their kryptonite.

While someone else, who had a completely different result from the same behavior, will present an opposing view.

I kind of know who are the really vocal proponents of their particular points of view, and will glean some learning from the back and forth, but in general I just dial in what works for me (at the particular time in my journey) and sort of tuck the various competing ideas, theories, and viewpoints away, in case at some different point in my journey, they are the right ideas at the time.

#36

Yes. Context is important. There are people seeking to reverse Type 2 Diabetes. Their approach is different to people trying to sort out immune mediated disease etc. There are people trying to gain muscle as a focus, while others aim to lose body fat first. Some eat plant based, some have reactions to plants. Some people are young, some are older; many different vintages. Some people can afford organic, grass-fed beef for themselves, others have a limited budget to feed a whole family. The forum is wonderfully diverse. That’s why we can potentially learn so much from a nutritional ketosis commons. Sitting back and working out from where people are engaging and meeting them where they are at is a form of tolerance that generally pervades this place.

#37

I thought I could track down some vitriol, at least a few misplaced angry words, in this thread that actually has keto-haters in the title

But found an awesome Life of Brian analogy alluding to tribalism tendencies.

(Kirk Wolak) #38

I have not seen/witnessed too much of this. (I got my share for suggesting that “shaming” might have it’s place in society to define norms. And I get BOTH side of the argument, and it was CLEAR to me to leave it alone. I touched a nerve). That was the worse I have seen.

But if I pick apart what you wrote. First, I agree. OFFER your advice and your experience. Understand, that it is YOURS in both accounts, and people are free to choose.

Diet Soda is a tough one. And it depends. I will give you my example. I have someone who is losing, but struggling and losing very slowly. REFUSES to even consider the HWC in the BPC might be worth removing. (Not here)… The challenge… People are ASKING for help, and people are SUGGESTING things to try/remove and to explain… Then the SAME people asking for help are like: “That’s not it!” LMAO. If you knew what “IT” was, you would have fixed it, or accepted it!

Tone does matter. But after a while, you have people who are NOT SEARCHING for what they are asking. Many are new, and just asking for help. WITHOUT the requisite reading of posts that contain most of what they need.

Lets AVOID the vitriol, I agree. But for those who are struggling, and asking for help, please come with an open mind. B/C it is frustrating to take the time out to work with someone, or try to, only to have them say “Well XYZ said BPC or Diet Soda is fine!”.
Nobody gets to make that statement for EVERYONE! Sorry. Every body is unique.
Ketosis is what YOU EAT for YOUR BODY to enter ketosis. And if PORK FAT takes you out of ketosis (or destroys your numbers) [NOTE: I found it does mine!] Then YOU have to work that into your routine.

This diet and our help should be about HELPING people TEST what works for them.

And Cheat Day. OMG, don’t get me started. But Language DOES matter. A Mental Relief Valve Meal is a better phrase, but wordy.

My sister-in-law has made great progress doing her own “Dirty, Nasty Keto”. She will NEVER test her blood ketones or glucose. She will drink alcohol every day, or darn close to it. Do I consider it “Keto”… Nope! Because despite eating Keto-Adjacent, making sure she is in ketosis is NOT a goal. So, I am sorry, it’s not “really Keto”.

Now, her diet is now far better than it was! I am NOT going to call her out on it. It’s “her keto”, “her diet”, “her life”… She is doing more than I ever thought she would do.
She is NOT asking for my help. If she asks, I will respond. But it’s hard, because I PREFER to use the Blood Ketone and Blood Glucose numbers to guide me. (But that doesn’t make something KETO either. That’s just testing!)

We need to meet people where they are. Kinda like going Carnivore. I am 98% carnivore. I do coffee, and occasionally nuts or something (paying a high price).
It’s not a badge I wear… But it is a whole big difference from someone who gets 80% or less of their calories from meat and animal fat.

People coming in need to understand there are many approaches, and if you are totally failing, to FAIL towards Carnivore as an elimination diet! Then add things back in,
to test them. (But there might be other ways. This seems the most efficient)!

I think being able to call out the vitriol in public [quote, then “Can we tone that down for the sake of the community and the future readers?”]

(Marianne) #39

Agreed!

(Marianne) #40

Ah, but then you wouldn’t be you!

:smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

:laughing:

(Polly) #41

Thank you!

(Deborah) #42

Hi,

Love, patience, mercy and Peace,

For you,
and Me

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #43

Dr. Stephen Phinney, one of the researchers who has been researching this way of eating the longest (he set out to prove Dr. Atkins wrong, and ended up down the rabbit hole himself, lol!). At Ketofest this year, Richard called him the “godfather” of keto, and he protested, so Richard changed it to “grandfather,” which he seemed to like better.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #44

This provides a good opportunity to remind people that, unlike other social media forums, which deliberately make searching for old material difficult or impossible, the software behind these forums has a search function that actually works.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) closed #45

Just a reminder to everyone to please re-read the Community Guidelines on the topic of civil discourse.