Jimmy Moore goes carnivore, eats much higher protein

(Mark Rhodes) #81

Hiya Paul

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #82

Mark! :wave:

(Hey, you got that home insulin meter designed yet? :grin:)

(Richard Morris) #83

That could be true. Personally I don’t know why he can’t find a diet that works for him. He appears to want to reduce body fat, so why can’t he? It’s not motivation. He is more motivated than anyone to do it - he likely makes in the rough vicinity of a 7 figure income from multiple diet books and podcasts. Who can be more motivated?

There are so many people queuing up to sucker punch him. Most have the most simplistic view of human energy storage - don’t eat unnecessary calories and you must burn body fat. It’s a restatement of eat less, move more. It’s the nutritional version of George Orwell’s 2 legs bad, 4 legs good.

A more nuanced answer is if Jimmy’s insulin for example is high, then he is redirecting fuel from being converted to energy in his mitochondria, into being exported to fat cells for storage. He would be running out of energy at a cellular level which would pervert satiety signals, and hunger signals and reduce metabolic rate. It’s the only explanation for the fat man who is still hungry.

I’ve eaten with Jimmy. He can be a hungry man. Maybe he gets so hungry sometimes that he makes conscious and subconscious exceptions to his macro-nutrient goals making his hormonal control worse.

Whatever Jimmy eats that increases his energy at a cellular level will decrease his hunger and increase satiety. He needs to find out what that is. Anything short of that will put him on a typical diet yo-yo, a ride on which he has already ridden multiple times right there in front of us.

Pundits telling him to eat more protein, or less protein, or to stop cheating (assuming he is), or more clean food, or less butter, or more butter are just guessing. Some of them could be right, all of them can’t be.

(Richard Morris) #84

We have google fu now too … look at what happens when you google Jimmy Moore Carnivore

https://www.google.com/search?q=jimmy+moore+carnivore

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(Robert C) #85

This got me thinking - finally came up with this question for you.

If regularly eating high amounts of protein causes autophagy to decrease down to levels that increase cancer rates - how is that not a metabolic derangement which causes cancer?

Seems like this idea might have a seat on your train.

(KCKO, KCFO) #86

I think I might just love you. America is living on the Animal Farm these days.

JImmy has done so much to promote lchf/keto eating and yet his seems to still have issues. I personally prefer yours and Carl’s podcast style and voices to his but he has brought this to many people’s attention so he is a leader in the keto field. I hope he can permanently get himself sorted out one day.

(Robert C) #87

Jimmy getting straightened out would be nice but, I think, cannot be done on better blood numbers alone.

I think you have to like what you see in the mirror.

(Adam Kirby) #88

This is assuming that lack of autophagy is the primary cause of cancer instead of mitochondria dysfunction brought on by refined carbs and seed oils, and that increased protein consumption shuts off autophagy in an IF-keto context.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #89

Isn’t autophagy stimulated by glucagon? So if one has a low insulin/glucagon ratio, such as when eating very little carbohydrate, isn’t that all that’s required?

(mole person) #90

I think it’s also inhibited by certain amino acids and that it is particularly sensitive to even tiny amounts of leucine. Glucagon is only part of the picture.

(Central Florida Bob ) #91

I was running around like a chicken sans head this week and missed this. I’m surprised no one posted this, especially in reference to protein in those over 50:

Grabbing a pull quote:

Men in the highest quartile of animal protein intake had a 39 percent decreased chance of experiencing higher-level functional decline than those in the lowest quartile. These associations were not seen in women. No consistent association was observed between plant protein intake and future higher-level functional decline in either sex.

“Identifying nutritional factors that contribute to maintaining higher-level functional capacity is important for prevention of future deterioration of activities of daily living,” said Dr. Tsubota-Utsugi. “Along with other modifiable health behaviors, a diet rich in protein may help older adults maintain their functional capacity.”

As we age, we seem to have a reduction in our ability to absorb or process protein. It seems we can compensate for this loss by simply increasing protein as we age.

All that said, it’s another food recall questionnaire, relative improvement type study. While it had 1007 participants, I’d still like to see more people and more direct experimentation. As the NHANES fiasco proved, no study is so big and well funded that it can’t be screwed up.

(Connie Walsh) #92

I am 6 months in on a carnivore diet. It has gotten rid of my IBS, my cankles and given me a tonne of energy and I am in the over 50 crowd. Maybe I am condemning myself to cancer. But I have lost 20lbs and that should help with my cancer risk.

But in the end we all die. I am willing to eat exclusively (except for what I snitch from my husband’s plate) meat and feel better. I am not an idealogue. I tried to add carrots, broccoli, cauliflower and corn back into my diet with terrible results (except the corn). My body just doesn’t like veg or fruit.

(Robert C) #93

I am not sure of the details but I have heard that not eating something (dairy, plants etc. - just about anything) can end up giving you an intolerance to it. I would think reintroducing plants in the future (if you ever want to) should start with very small portions to avoid a problem.

My warning on Carnivore here:

Check your iron levels.

Men and post-menopausal women can end up with “iron overload” if they have too much red meat.
I have a very high iron level so I need to drink milk with my red meat (calcium blocks absorption).
Excess iron in the blood destroys your organs (a faster death than cancer).

(Chris) #94

Probably a solid argument for why tribes subsist on milk and blood as well as the rest of the animal. Whether or not they know the scientific specifics.

(Connie Walsh) #95

I could understand if the reaction was an unsettled gut. But my reaction to the broccoli and cauliflower was ankle swelling. I ate it and the next day my ankles were sore and itchy. I looked and they had ballooned out to their previous cankle situation. It has gone back down and haven’t had the same reaction again.

As for the carrots I got the IBS back. I did it as a test as I used to have trouble with carrots before the diet and I got the exact same reaction. I was just trying to confirm that adding something back in had the same reaction as before.

Corn has had no reaction whatsoever.

As for the iron. I have been low in iron since ever (clinically by blood tests). I have always had to supplement but iron pills are hard to take unless you buy the expensive ones. Maybe that is where the increased energy is coming from.

(Connie Walsh) #96

Doesn’t the jewish religion separate meat and milk. Huh.

(Chris) #97

No clue. My wife is half Jewish but doesn’t participate. I’m thinking more like the inuit or mongolian tribes, and whatnot.

Edit: Prohibited!

#98

Depending on if you keep Kosher and just how orthodox you want to be about it. But yes, meat and dairy are separate. There’s a whole section in the Talmud about how long you have to wait between eating your beef and taking a sip of milk (Sephardim say wait six hours, Ashkenazim say not in the same meal). And if you really like to start the Discourse, argue with a rabbi about why poultry is included in this law.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #99

Thou shalt not seethe the chick in its mother’s milk?

#100

Never was there better discourse over food classifications until the SCOTUS decided tomatoes were a vegetable.

You can, however, feel free to eat chicken cooked with eggs to your heart’s content.