Jimmy Moore goes carnivore, eats much higher protein

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #101

Hmm, chopped chicken liver omelette! Too bad bacon’s not kosher!

#102

Great topic, thanks! I learned (from Dr GundryMD, “Diet Evolution” 2008) that tribal elders of a certain age might find their DNA triggering an earlier demise: for the good of the tribal young (who can then, with the additional food, carry on the elder’s DNA). Low protein intake signals one’s DNA that one is not a successful hunter and is becoming a drag on the tribal resources … When you say “dump protein” are you thinking of a bolus? I say, eat to satiety on eating days (within a feeding window of 6 hours/day), fast intermittently (easy if one is fat-adapted), and thrive: else get left on the trail-side. Just sayin …

(Janet) #103

I have been researching the metabolic direction on cancer. It is very compelling and it was a clue to cancer treatment decades ago but shoved to the side as soon as DNA was figured out by Watson and Crick. After the Human Genome was sequenced that discovery was considered the path to cures. But, this direction has been a bust and others are starting to look at the metabolic thing. Cancers thrive on sugar. A cancer cell feeds on sugar but doesn’t know what to do with a ketone hence it is weakened. This is a very simple explanation as it is still complicated. But PET scan revealed cancer cells are vulnerable to Keto diets. There are now integrative clinics that add treatments like keto diet in conjunction with conventional treatment. Keto is showing that it helps conventional treatments work better with patients adjusting to chemo better and less harsh side effects. It is very very exciting. If you have cancer, know someone with cancer or want to prevent cancers read Tripping Over the Truth by Travis Christofferson (history of where cancer research went off the rails and progression of metabolic approach. Then Metabolic Approach to Cancer by dr Nashua Winters. There are other books as well on keto and metabolic approach. My sister has a rare PET scan revealed cancer and I am trying to get her to look this direction. She is being told her cancer is terminal but she is terrified of chemo.

(Robert C) #104

My “dump protein” statement was supposed to fall on the side of “bro-science” where one might be throwing down shakes and thinking they’ll get more muscle without so much of that actual work in the gym.

There seems to be curve where one might want higher protein while growing (high school), less protein through the middle years but then increased protein in the later years (65 plus).

The logic seems to be that more protein can drive growth - including cancer growth - so mid-life might be a good idea to avoid that growth but, later in life - the benefits of extra protein outweigh the additional cancer risks.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #105

This is true for many cancers, but quite a few cancers simply LOVE β-hydroxybutyrate.

(Karim Wassef) #106

Which? Is there a good resource for which can or cannot use BHB?

I thought that part of the cancer pathology was the inability of white blood cells to recognize them as “marked for elimination” due to mitochondrial damage cause by glucose oxidation. They end up using glucose fermentation to generate energy instead.

(Janet) #107

Of course, but a large amount of PET scan positive cancers are sugar fed. Read Tripping over the Truth book. Having a positive PET scan is a big clue to treatments including Keto. My sister has tumors. She was basically fed a form of sugar before the test and the test showed her tumors lit up like a Christmas tree. I would think almost all suspected tumors get PET scanned. Normal diagnostics I was told. Hence stop sugar and processed carbs. More complicated naturally but that is the nutshell I read.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #108

Dr. Dawn Lemanne, an oncologist from Oregon, discusses this in the following presentation:

The answer to your question begins at 5:40, but I strongly recommend watching the entire lecture. It is fascinating, and jam-packed with information. Lots of study references, too.

@Janet2 I think this lecture addresses your post, as well.

(Janet) #109

I am 70 yr old small boned woman mostly keto. I have upped my protein some and feel great. NOTHING hurts anymore and I sleep like a baby with calm moods stable energy. I was on Paleo for several years but there were just too many carbs for me. I am working out more and started some “lifting” at the gym along with dumbbells. 5 to 6 miles on recumbent bike and when winter goes back to walking. Fast. :grin::+1:t2:

(Bunny) #110

You cannot eliminate PUFA’s from your diet period! (what peeps want to believe and reality are two totally different concepts)

So much confusion ensues when it comes to this topic, there is absolutely nothing wrong with PUFA’s, although PUFA’s are not as stable as saturated fats or monounsaturated fats when you apply heat, they are just simply more prone to losing electrons. PUFA’s may become unhealthy when you hydrogenate it. You eat highly refined sugar and carbs on top of eating things deep fried in hydrogenated PUFA’s (trans fats) and that’s where the problem is… PUFA’s in their natural unprocessed state are extremely beneficial to your health. From the ancestral perspective wild game has more PUFA’s than modernized domesticated livestock (saturated fat)…

#111

All of the science I have seen on the subject shows older people need more not less protein to achieve Muscle Protein Synthesis. And there’s a lot of the science out there.

(Karim Wassef) #112

On PUFAs… I test my glucose and ketones because I watch out for digestive stress and that spikes my glucose (regardless of carbs). It’s why I went for carni+ in the first place. Nice veggies that are high fiber low carbs were making me feel bad and the tests showed it.

I saw the same effect with foods fried in PUFAs vs SFAs. They had an inflammatory stress response - so I went with SFAs as much as possible. Coconut, Avocado and EVOO are the only exceptions because they have more MUFA and SFA content.

Just my n=1.

(bulkbiker) #113

Not eliminate but possible to reduce dramatically by avoiding veg, nuts etc and just eating meat?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #114

The essential fats happen to be two categories of PUFA’s: ω-3’s and ω-6’s. Only small amounts are required, and too much ω-6 causes inflammation.

While not essential, those who have a doctor or insurance company to placate should know that saturated fat has been shown to increase the level of HDL cholesterol, and monounsaturated fat is an excellent source of energy for the fat-adapted (which is why MCT oil is so popular).

(Karim Wassef) #115

PUFAs like omega 3 from wild salmon is not like PUFA in corn oil…

Not all PUFAs are created alike. :slight_smile:

(Jane) #116

Interesting article.

For me, 2 eggs and 2 slices of bacon would be almost half my protein allotment for the day because I am so short so my lean mass is small. I guess I could say maybe I have been overeating protein my entire life and should be eating like a bird instead of a vulture :laughing:

I would rather fast for multiple days each month and enjoy my protein when not fasting.

(Bunny) #117

Why would you want to reduce PUFA’s “dramatically” that makes makes no sense?

What’s wrong with PUFA’s?

Omega 3, 5, 6, 7, & 9: One does not work without the others… Omega 9’s regulate the lower numbers optimally and evenly!

It is when you add hydrogen to it (vegetable oils) then cook with it (trans fats); Therein is where the problems begin (exogenous obesity) and there are very few restaurants that do not cook with hydrogenated or the non-hydrogenated stuff if you dine-out a lot?

Non-hydrogenated cold pressed Coconut oil & Palm oil (monounsaturated) being the exception to cook with!

(bulkbiker) #118

I use goose or duck fat…

(Karim Wassef) #119

Not eating out is hard but it’s doable. I find the bad PUFAs to be very inflammatory and the cleaner I eat, the worse they effect me.

It’s really digestive distress. The less veggies I eat, the more inflammatory the ones I keep as an exception become. Brazil nuts used to be a favorite but now I need to wash and remove the brown skin that develops a mold … or else. Unless they’re super fresh, I get a reaction.

Even the light olive oils … if they blend them with something else…

I love asparagus - love the short chain fatty acids my microbiome makes fermenting the fiber in it… but I have to take it in moderation.

Fermented veggies have been fine

After going carni+, the bloating, swelling, inflammation and gut distress all went away. Feels so good.

I replaced the plant phytonutrients by eating organ meats, especially liver - that’s my veggies now. Liver + pickled and fermented veggies and a few exceptions and I get the good stuff without the nasty plant chemicals.

If I have only plants to eat, I’ll go EF instead. I get the feeling my ancestors would have held out as long as possible before eating plants that mess with their bodies and minds.

(Jenny) #120

this is happening to me as well!