Jimmy Moore goes carnivore, eats much higher protein

(Bob M) #1

On the last Keto Hacking MD podcast, Jimmy Moore revealed that he went on a carnivore diet. He ate way more protein than he did while keto (double or more protein per day). So, of course, his blood sugar skyrocketed, his ketones plummeted, and he gained weight, right? Ah, no. His blood sugar was fine (highest 95, most in the 70s, which is great - my morning blood sugar is always over 100), his ketones were fine, and he lost 10 pounds. PROTEIN IS NOT BAD FOR YOU.

Listen here:

Now, he’s got an unusual carnivore protocol, as ribeyes aren’t fatty enough for him, so he’s been adding things like sour cream to up the fat content. He’s trying for 70+ % fat for some reason. He’s also using herbs and the like for seasoning.

They also tend to take a while getting into the results, so it’ll be another 3-4 episodes at least until you get the whole picture.

But, this idea that protein is bad for you and turns to sugar and kills your ketones is completely wrong. We should not be relying on macros (other than a carb intake macro) and should instead concentrate on eating real freaking food.

They were hypothesizing that his benefits were achieved because he went even lower on carbs on the carnivore diet, that’s why he achieved a benefit. I think that’s questionable. Listening to these podcasts, Jimmy Moore would often talk about eating fat bombs to get his fat intake up. Those fat bombs were most likely filled with nuts, which are high in PUFAs. So, my theory is he’s removed PUFAs from his diet and therefore is losing weight. It’s not the carb amount, in my opinion.

I’m now thinking of doing carnivore for a while, as I’m close but still eat some vegetables. Will confer with my wife and see when I can start.

(Chris) #2

Glad Jimmy found something that works for him. And it adds another, nice and loud, voice to the anti “too much protein” crowd, which I am a loyal member.

#3

I know when he tested Ted Naiman’s higher protein/lower fat protocol he suffered badly from reactive hypoglycemia so that’s probably why he adds fat.

IIRC while doing the Naiman thing he ate a crap tonne of chicken & I’ve often wondered if that’s why he got the hypos - PUFAs made hime more sensitive to the large amounts of insulin he produces. His theory is that he is glucagon resistant but I’m not sold on it.
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(Robert C) #4

I think, most of the “too much protein” crowd is after the long game.

Over eating protein for 20 plus years (powder, meat, dairy etc.) may overload organs expecting less.

Any short term change vs. long term gain should be reviewed in context.

Otherwise, eat less, exercise more, would rule the day.

(Chris) #5

Perhaps, but most of the metabolically deranged folks I’ve met would have fallen into the protein deficient category even prior to keto.

(Robert C) #6

BUT - you seem young - I am over 50 so the people you meet and I meet might be very different.

Dumping protein onto anyone over 50 seems like a losing game, more likely to help existing problems (cancer) than to help simple muscle mass. Adding some “lifting heavy things” seems to do the trick.

(Running from stupidity) #7

Working nicely here.

(Chris) #8

To be fair, my sample population is mostly from here and facebook - the majority of both seems to be closer to your “age group” demographic than to mine.

(Running from stupidity) #9

Very politely put, Chris :slight_smile:

(The amazing autoimmune 🦄) #10

I don’t count protein grams at all. I know some days I am over as I do track occasionally to keep myself on track. So I see the total grams I just pay no heed. FYI sometimes I am under also. I have heard several podcasts done by reputable Keto doctors that have all said that the whole process is demand driven not excess protein driven.

(Cynthia Puzio) #11

Sometimes during the month, I crave protein. On those days I try to go a little bit over my macro. I try for 60 grams instead of 50. I was very ignorant about my nutrition prior to going on keto. Very protein deficient. I have only been doing Keto since the beginning of December, so I think I am still recovering my health and I try to listen to my body.

(KCKO, KCFO) #12

I know several women in that age group that found MORE protein fixed a lot of issues for them. Most are not keto either, just found they really needed more protein to get healthier. I’m like that, I am not carnivore, but some days I eat only meat, fish, cheese and eggs. I like me greens way too much to go full on carnivore.

(charlie3) #13

What I do to get fattier meat is buy it at a local butcher shop as gound chuck and ask for 70% lean. The butcher has to make it special order, which he can do very quickly. To make sure I consume all the fat I cook the meat in a fry pan, put it in a wide shallow bowel then pour the juices on the meat and spoon it out if necessary. I have to ration this. I’d way way over eat it if I let myself. I can’t figure out why it’s so satisfying to eat. The butcher is getting to know me and seems quite impressed with an order like that, once he thought it over.

For a while I was adding cheese but stopped doing that because I’d rather eat the calories as meat.

I’m experimenting with seasoning, Anyone have suggestions?

(Dena ) #14

I love Jimmy Moore podcasts. Listen to a couple of them. Great information always given!

(Robert C) #15

I guess I could have been much more clear with my response.

By “Dumping protein” I meant excessive “bro-science” levels of protein - 3 or 4 extra multi-scoop whey shakes each day for example. Doing this with some (I believe mistaken) belief that muscle will grow or at least be maintained.

Simply upping protein a bit to get better satiation, or it makes you feel better or it eases hitting your macros (after becoming fat-adapted) if you can stay in ketosis - great.

Getting and keeping muscle as you age becomes more and more difficult but, from what I have read (i.e. that you can add plenty of lean body mass on 0.6 grams per kilogram) it really seems to be the case that forcing the adaptation - through lifting heavy things - is 90+ percent of the requirement.

(Mark Rhodes) #16

That is not keto protein as it isn’t real food, in my opinion. Plus they whey protein creates an insulin spike that is really unacceptable as a keto option.

Ben Bikman on a recent Human Outliers Podcast with Shawn Baker ( I do not think it is yet available for public consumption) said protein and insulin varies depending on your glucose load. In other words your personal protein threshold is different than mine.

(Chris) #17

Entirely subjective, but no one that I’ve ever seen advocating a level of protein this low was ever very muscular. I’m not lumping YOU into the group because I simply can’t tell from a photo.

47g is what I would require to build muscle on that plan, at a BW of 79.54kg. This is, to me, extreme restriction. Trying to fill in the rest of the day’s calories with fat would leave me a lot fatter (and presumably pretty small muscle-wise). Not only that but protein is used for a lot more than building muscle. Bone is lean mass, organs are lean mass, and both require aminos for maintenance or growth.

(Chris) #18

Dunno man, I’m burping ketones within 20 minutes of consuming a whey shake. Have you tested this with blood?

(Running from stupidity) #19

Yup

(Mark Rhodes) #20

I too went carnivore as I will be attending @amber 's Boulder Carnivore Conference on March 7 and I wanted to attend with some personal experience. In July of 2018 I quit tobacco and gained 22 pounds of fat and 8 pounds of lean tissue per Dexascan. During that time my blood glucose elevated quite significantly lending credibility to to insulin sensitivity created by nicotine ( read about that journey here) . My sugars normalized but stayed high in December so I decided to start January with a 5 day fast followed by carnivore. In my chart you can see my progress. My sugars dropped significantly. I lost a total of 5 pounds so far but I think it has been greater than that as I lift heavy for a 54 year old.

Keto in December
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My average protein consumption in grams is 154 daily. My lean body tissue is 78 KG
My protein intake is almost double the amount of protein recommended for keto…yet I am definitely in ketosis by any measure. I eat mainly steaks, sous vide chuck, burgers, eggs, pork belly and beef liver.

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ORANGE is my fast.
RED is Carnivore.
Green plain Keto ( 2 plus years, no cheats)

I measure both beta-hydroxybutyrate ( Keto Mojo) and acetone in the breath ( Ketonix) because I am anal about measuring [spoiler]shit[/spoiler].