Is it Possible for this WOE not to work on a heavy Meat Eater?

#1

I have lost over 30 lbs since March doing IF and Keto.

Husband was put on this diet by me two weeks ago, will not fast but otherwise has been following keto. Has not lost an ounce. Claims to have bacon and eggs while at work, other meals he eats with me. Claims he feels worse, how long does keto flu last anyway?

One reason I wonder if it will work for him is that he is a stocky muscular build to begin with and is a big meat eater. He believes if it did not have parents, you cannot call it dinner! I have explained to him about excess protein and have been encouraging him to eat more fat. He has over 50 lbs to lose and has a large beer belly even though he rarely drinks alcohol. His family does not have a history of diabetes or IR. He has been overdoing the berries and nuts a little but honestly only a little. I have started putting them out of sight.

OTHO for me my favorite foods are grain based although I tried to avoid them even before Keto. My family does have a huge T2 history which is one reason this seems to work for me. Although to be honest, most of the weight I lose seems to happen after a fast, not during regular Keto. Not sure what this means except maybe we are both eating too many nuts and berries and cheese?! Meanwhile I have lost steadily so I do not want to change

(James storie) #2

There is a zero carb side to this (no plant food whatsoever) that may work better for him. It still includes the fattest cuts available but there is normally no tracking involved. Without the carbs from the plants, there is more room for excess protein. There is a zero carb thread as well as some really good websites for info. A good one that I found useful was zerocarbzen.com

(What The Fast?!) #3

@jamestorie I can’t remember if i asked this on another thread, but do you supplement saltsodium, potassium, or magnesium on ZC?

@Saphire Does your husband supplement anything? Additional salt should help his keto flu.

(James storie) #4

The only thing I supplement is magnesium. 400 mgs a day in 2 doses (200 in the morning, 200 before bed). I have increased my pink salt consumption for the time being after the salt fix podcast.

(John) #5

Keto flu can last for a long time if you aren’t getting the electrolytes you need. He won’t be adapted for weeks either so it will take a while.

As far as meat eaters go, this is the best diet for us, eat all of it you want. When I found keto it was by searching for diets that allowed me to eat all the meat I wanted. Feeling worse could also be withdrawal from sugar which I had pretty acutely for a couple weeks.

(Jason Fletcher) #6

You want to try to keep your carb count as low as you can when you start keto don’t eat nuts or berries. When your body has not adapted to keto you are far more sensitive to carbs. I would say give it 3 months before you start to adding these things if at all. It is best as well to measure weigh and log all your food so you know what your macros are that way you will be able to figure out how to adjust your diet. If your husband does not have his heart into this WOE i would not push it. This WOE is best done as a lifestyle and doing it for a few months to drop some weight is not worth it in the long run.

(Crow T. Robot) #7

Then this is his dream come true. Lose weight and get healthier while eating all the meat you want! He’ll have to really be careful with plant food, though. Couldn’t be simpler though, if he’s willing to cut it out altogether.

A classic ketogenic diet is moderate protein, but the amount of protein that is appropriate is still somewhat controversial and individualistic. Thing is, it’s hard to really overeat meat. You get satisfied on much less than you think, but you should eat until you don’t want any more. That’s usually about the right amount if you don’t have plant foods confusing the issue.

#8

Thanks for all the replies @KetoLikeaLady, @Chris_W, @Jason_Fletcher, @jmbundy, @jamestorie

He does not supplement, personally I have only needed to while fasting, otherwise alot of what we eat is salty. He absolutely refuses to fast. I will encourage him to consider it. He takes magnesium anyway and is on this vitamin regime that he has been on for years, I do not ask too many questions about it.

Maybe buy him some smart water? Will that help?

He is a meat eater to the extreme. He grew up in a traditional household where dinner was a meat, a starch and a vegetable. His mother rarely had leftovers.

Over the years I have been amazed at how much meat he can eat at one sitting. If I am making stew or brisket I never use less than 4 lbs of meat and if I do there are no leftovers. This is with only 2 kids at home who are not big eaters and I personally will only have a couple of bites and will make myself keto pizza or something. So he is probably normally (Pre Keto) consuming about 2 lbs of meat a day.

He REALLY needs to lose weight for many reasons, his BMI is probably at least in the high 30s. His weight is distributed as an apple. Interestingly, I recently listened to the Ivor Cummins podcast about heavier weight people who are not insulin resistant and I have wondered if that applies to him. There is no T2 in his family and he was heavy (not like now but compared to other kids) as a child. Which Ivor says is one of the characteristics of people who are insulin sensitive but overweight.

We watched Fathead together which he liked. Any other non podcast movies that will help explain the process?

(John) #9

I really liked That Sugar Film if you can get a hold of it.

(What The Fast?!) #10

@saphire Has he thought about going fully ZC? Might be easier for him since he loves meat.

(Jason Fletcher) #11

Does he want to change? does he want to be keto? Or is he just appeasing you? He needs to have a goal that will drive him to encorporate this WOE to achieve it. The reason i asked is i have seen this situation before. The wife makes a decision to change and he has no desire to do it and runs off eating carbs like a 5 year old behind her back complains all then time how the WOE sucks because he no energy. If you want information on how to execute this WOE successfully we can do that. Your in for a uphill battle if he is not 100% on board. I myself was keto for 3 years until my wife decided to give it a try and now she is hooked. But she was fully committed to giving it a shot when she started.

(Kristin Rogers) #12

Not nearly enough electrolytes in this to make a difference, IMO

The apple distribution of fat points to insulin resistance. If he can get a fasting insulin level tested, you’ll have more information about that.

(Crow T. Robot) #13

[quote=“kristinisketo, post:12, topic:15780”]
The apple distribution of fat points to insulin resistance.
[/quote] @Saphire

Yup, this indicates visceral fat that is a hallmark of metabolic syndrome. It would be nice to know his HbA1C as well.

Since even many people who try to eat strictly keto have difficulty in the beginning figuring out where hidden carbs are, or underestimating the effect of hidden sugar, I wouldn’t be surprised if your husband could be getting carbs while he’s away.

Hard to say, without following him around, so maybe continuing education is the key. Just don’t force it, since it sounds like he’s likes the status quo.

There was no T2 in a lot of people’s families up until recently. I wouldn’t put too much faith in that.

(Mike W.) #14

[quote=“Saphire, post:1, topic:15780, full:true”]

Husband was put on this diet by me two weeks ago[/quote]
You sound like you’re treating him like a child not an equal. You also sound like you’re trying to “fix” him. I can almost guarantee he’s stuffing his face with carbs when he’s not at home. I would be. This has to be a choice he makes on his own. The quickest way to not get me on board with something is to TELL me to do it. Ask my wife.
Maybe you should try for more of a team mentality. Maybe make it a friendly competition. My wife and I have lost a ton of weight together. We support each other and cheer each other on. If she would have told me this is something I HAD to do, I guarantee you I’d have gained 40 lbs instead of losing it…

(Ernest) #15

Does he want this or are you forcing it on him?

(Cathrine Helle) #16

First, I really hope you get your husband on board with implementing a keto lifestyle, being in it together would most certainly be beneficial for the both of you :slight_smile:

Second, I’m curious which podcast you’re referring to? I would like to listen to it too :slight_smile:

(Jeremy Storie) #17

I would not push fasting on him. The desire to fast will come when he is ready.

#18

Thank you

The pod cast is 2ketoDudes the January 29, 2017 episode

Insulin Resistance from the ground up

#19

Thank you for the responses @kristinisketo, @Ernest, @MiKetoAF, @jeremystorie, @KetoLikeaLady

I honestly do not think he is intentionally cheating. Competition does not work between us, this should, we have been sharing entres (which we never did before), I have been cooking almost every night and he is very happy to have dinner prepared, that does not usually happen in summer. Plus if it was just me on keto, since I do a lot of fasts I probably would not be cooking as often. Also, I can be happy with some cheese and eggs or a lettuce sandwich for dinner even when not fasting and he knows that. For example I am on a fat fast and still made steak for dinner for him and the one kid home tonight.

While I do not think I treat him like a child at all, absolutely guilty of being a fixer. I love to fix. Have several friends I am gently suggesting this WOE to. One is severely diabetic, one is borderline and the third is an insulin sensitive heavy person (A1C was 5 or less much to her GP’s disappointment) and yes she was a very heavy child.

Its that I feel like I have seen the light and want to share it with my close friends and family, why should they suffer needlessly based on the BS of the food pyramid and “modern” medicine?

I am the one who has spent hours reading Fung, listening to podcasts, and even reading beyond NIH abstracts to really understand the studies. I was initially very hesitant to be eating so much fat. He is not a reseacher by nature unless it is for work. Plus I do 99% of the cooking.

The reason I encouraged him to join me after losing the first 15 lbs is that I started feeling guilty that I am moving forward and leaving him to suffer on the SAD. I have NEVER encouraged him to diet ever before (and our oldest is in college), just as he never comments on my weight. I know personally how impossible it is to diet. So to encourage a spouse to do the impossible on CICO is a waste of time. This is his type of food and it seems to work as long as you stick to it and sticking is not hard so far. We have young children, I want him there!

To recap, it sounds like more electrolytes
No berries or nuts and reduce veggies as much as possible
Try and get a better sense of what he is eating at work
(he swears its bacon and eggs!)
Keep giving him information on the keto diet
Check his glucose or A1C

I am curious, does anyone know anyone who was a big meat eater who did not lost weight even when sticking to keto?

(What The Fast?!) #20

Have you considered ZC? Seems like it might be appealing to him.