I'm out

(AnnaLeeThal) #21

Thanks for this detailed explanation.

I think I was not prepared for ZC when I started. Right now I am eating plants as I desire for pleasure mostly and focusing on getting most of my nutrients from animals. I feel good doing this, but I always have that feeling like I could feel better. Fatigue mostly, but I am unsure if it is diet related, although almost everything can be improved through diet.

I’m going to prepare myself well for the 30 day steak thing in March, and I’m going to be very interested to see if it makes a difference in any residual complaints that I have. Science!

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #22

I’m planning to write a sticky on the topic to explain better what ZC is, what it’s good for and why to try it and why not to bother with it. Coming soon!

(Erin Macfarland ) #23

Thank you!! I think that would be really helpful. I agree that plants probably can be harmful, but there is definitely the “pleasure factor” AnnaLee mentions that is hard for me to let go of. I also am not sure how to approach eating more fat and less protein. I already eat very fatty cuts of meat. How do I eat straight fat on ZC? I can’t really just eat bacon fat or tallow without feeling sick.

(AnnaLeeThal) #24

I don’t feel there is a focus on limiting protein on ZC. Correct me if I’m wrong @amber.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #25

I’m a big proponent of pleasure! :grinning:

Although I do like eating a little tallow or lard off the spoon, I mostly just stick to really fatty cuts, pour the fat from the pan back on or spread some on. Honestly, I don’t sweat it that much.

I’d love to hear thoughts from others on this: how much fat do you “add” vs. just fatty meat and how.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #26

You’re right. There isn’t, except that fatty meats are encouraged, and too much lean meat can lead to problems. Usually a decent ratio just comes out in the wash.

(Alex Dipego) #27

I save left over bacon fat, or if I’m out I put 2-3tb in the pan for my fish because i like the skin and don’t wish it to stick plus even fatty fish like trout are still pretty lean. I’ll sear meat in a dry pan then add butter after the first flip. It’s more for the need of extra fat as I have low access so I need more fat than I’m getting from these cuts of meat.

The flavor doesn’t change much from using butter, I save things like ghee or lard or tallow for when I low and slow cook to pull that flavor out of that into the meat. But! Doing ZC I’ve found I prefer rare meat, outside of pork though, I still get pork to 140 out of habit of food safety.

#28

This is what train new things is all about. The goal isn’t always to fit into that new woe but to learn from it.

You are getting to a place now where you have the strength to make decisions that feel right for you. Start trusting your instincts.

Maybe @amber could weigh in here - is there a minimum time you feel you need to give ZC/Carnivore to see if it works fro you or not? Are @Emacfarland’s cravings for broccoli something she should ride out for a little while to give ZC a chance or actually listen to and act on?

(David) #29

Is broccoli bad?

Ooops !

(Charndra Pile) #30

I have been pouring the fat back on, only seldom adding fat, like for fish, I’m drowning that in ghee!

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #31

Good question, @daisy.

I usually recommend giving ZC 3-4 weeks. A lot of stuff can happen in that amount of time, and I think it’s doable from the perspective of it feeling like forever psychologically.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #32

Loaded question! :wink:

Broccoli is definitely not included in this diet. It’s exactly a stereotypical food that makes the difference between VLC/Keto and ZC/Carnivore.

Broccoli has toxins, as all plants do, and some people are sensitive to them. I have a friend who eats carnivorously, and it puts her arthritis is complete remission. One serving of brussels sprouts (same family) puts her back in pain.

The vast majority of food I ate while keto and before ZC were cruciferous, and greens, as well as some salad-y stuff like cucumbers, avocado, tomatoes ,and high fat dressing. We’re talking “healthy” stuff.

Is it bad? No. There’s nothing morally wrong with it. (Hahaha) It’s delicious. It makes it easy to eat fat, by loading it on top. It’s very low in non-fibrous carbs. It’s just not ZC and can make all the difference for some people.

(chris.coote) #33

I have nothing against avoiding vegetables. I will probably try again when I have enough concentration to give it the attention it deserves. For the moment though, I just came off a kidney scare and prefer to avoid spilling extra protein. I’d have to “pour on the ghee” to go carnivore and keep my protein down to .8 g/kg ish…

(Loraine Hansen) #34

How do you get that broccoli is not LCHF? I’ve seen it right along with all the other vegetables that grow ABOVE ground that Carl and Richard have given the green light to. I’ve never heard that broccoli has toxins, any more than anything else that has been sprayed with pesticides, that is. I agree that some people can be sensitive, to any food, including broccoli, which is a separate issue. And perhaps it will make the difference for some people, but I don’t think it’s a “not to eat vegetable” on LCHF, is it? If I’m wrong, please tell me where Carl and/or Richard say that. I would like to see it for myself.

(Alex Dipego) #35

This is a ZC section. So broccoli is a no go on ZC as far as LCHF it’s a different story. Broccoli is fine for some except celiacs but when ZC… It’s a carb.

(Larry Lustig) #36

@Loraine, when @amber says broccoli is not include on “this diet”, she’s not referring to keto but rather to a more extreme version that is (still somewhat incorrectly) referred to as “zero carb”. What that diet espouses is consumption of 100% animal products – meat, dairy, and eggs.

It’s @amber’s contention (she’ll correct my inevitable misstatements, I hope) that plants contain inborn defensive mechanisms against being eaten by animals in the form of physical defenses (thorns, thick skins), aesthetic defenses (tasting bitter), and also substances that are harmful to potentials consumers and that these latter substances are also harmful to humans. Those are the toxins – naturally occurring compounds rather than man made – that Amber is referring to as plant toxins.

(flyferretschef) #37

@Emacfarland

That’s a great way of explaining it!!

(Loraine Hansen) #38

Oh, I see. Thank you for clarifying that for me. I just assumed that because this is a Ketogenic Forum, that everything discussed here would be about that.

(Scott Shillady) #39

It is, but this post happens to be in the zero carb/ carnivore subcategory.

(Blyss (Old @Charmaine)) #40

Are you saying people who do ZC have depression issues? Because of no spices?