Yup, don’t feel alone though. Pretty much everyone starts thinking the standard keto diet will just keep working until you get to the weight you want. I did too. It’s obviously naive once you think through the metabolism, but seriously who understands that correctly at the beginning.
If a ketogenic diet would make you always lose weight then everyone would have to stop eating ketogenically once they hit their target weight or they would waste away and die.
When you start a ketogenic diet your daily insulin load plummets and you start losing weight. But eventually your net fat loss comes into equilibrium with that new insulin level. When that happens, if you still want to lose weight then you have to alter your diet again to give up the more insulin triggering elements.
Many people here will tell you keto “isn’t a weight loss diet but a weight normalization diet”, but I think this is nonsense. I don’t have a “normal” weight. My maintenance weight is different based on what I eat. If I eat high fat and meat only with OMAD I fall to 104 lbs. If I do the same but eat whenever I want it’s about 106lbs. If I have a few cups of creamed coffee a day it’s closer to 108 lbs. If I add a few squares a day of chocolate I’ll normalize nearer to 112 lbs. And so on.
The idea that your body wants to be a certain weight is only true within the context of the diet that you are currently on. When you change the diet you change your body’s ‘maintenance’ weight.
Yes, this will be my one cheat Friday. My only other cheat was going to be Sunday having a half cup of coconut milk with Cocoa.
I’ll still likely go for the Ribeye and keep to your advice for tonight.
I will be going on vacation on 14Mar, so I’m going to try my best to be on the plan until then and especially not to stray on the weekends as that will be critical. I want to see how I do without testing, as honestly I’m just paranoid now about getting another infection. However, if I see that it’s not going well this week, I will commit to this I will still remain on keto during my vacation, but perhaps go back to my old style which included more veggies and I will likely have some drinks.
My usual go-to keto treat does in fact have Almond flour, 1.5 tablespoons to be exact, and .5 tablespoons coconut flour, 1/2 teaspoon baking powder, 1 tablespoon Nutzo keto nut butter, 1 egg, dash vanilla extract. Everything is combined and then microwaved for 1 minute. Soo soo good…
My last question/bother, is what are your thoughts about my potential meal plan for the week? I also have pork shoulder I can make.
I think this is something many of us struggle with initially. I found it kept getting better the more I tried and now I can’t not eat it. Try cutting the fat up into tiny bits and having small portions with the meat bites. It drowns the texture element and helps you get accustomed to liking the extra fat. It’s how I dealt with the exact same issue. Now I must have added fat with meat or I won’t enjoy it. Your tastes change as your body adapts.
The easiest way to tell this is with either getting the macros of the food or taking blood ketones and glucose. But since you want to wait on this step why don’t you, for now, just make some of the changes we have discussed and see what happens. It could be enough to start moving the needle.
Start with eliminating dairy fully again, eating much fattier protein sources, and cutting back on vegetables as much as you can without impacting your gut health. Also, try to stay away from treats. Feel free to report here what you’ve eaten if you feel that will help.
Oh, and your meal plans look waaaaay better than the lean chicken and tuna. Ribeye, short ribs, pork shoulder and fatty ground beef (undrained, of course) are all excellent keto meal choices. They are the sorts of things that I eat every day. Just try to keep the vegetable sides small. Vegetables, especially in oil or fats, lead to overeating. To me it’s like carbs. I can eat a LOT of asparagus spears.
I did it! I went out and I stuck to what I promised. Here is the day, I really got hungry around 4:30 pm and I didn’t want my first item in my stomach to be a vodka soda so I broke my fast at home with a can of sardines and tablespoon of olive oil. I went out and got a steak (they didn’t have a rib eye except an enormous one so I got flank steak I know not the best but it was one night). I had only one drink as promised and nothing else. So that I ensured it was just the one insulin spike for dinner. I wanted one piece of chocolate (90% dark) but I didn’t. I stuck to it!!! I’m down .4 lbs!
Tonight will be the real test to my willpower. My friends who are also keto (although I feel we are doing it all wrong) are making keto versions of gumbo and jambalaya (cauli rice). I think my best bet is to pull out the sausage and shrimp out of the gumbo and eat primarily that. I just don’t know if that will get me enough fats…if I can just make it through tonight tomorrow will be so easy as I’m at home and am making this huge pork shoulder and the chili for my week.
One other thing that gets me confused is I follow so many keto folks on Instagram but the recipes to me now that I understand better seem just low carb not truly keto. Or perhaps these folks are all in maintenance mode and the recipes are more tailored to that?
Thank you!!! I’m making headway and also to answer your other point I’ve been dairy free for past 30 days and that will continue. As it’s easy to eat.
The fat is to keep you satiated since you are eating only smaller quantities of carbs and protein. When you are in a situation where the food is all lean protein of carbs then just eat less. Basically you don’t want to have more protein then you would regularly. Then when you get home fill up on something fatty.
So what I’m saying is, the sausage and shrimp are fine even in the absence of fat as long as the portion is still around 50-70 grams of protein. The only issue is that it’s just not a lot of food without fat. But it’s fine as long as you keep the quantity in check.
Most keto recipe books are pretty bad. But most people are also not having much success getting down to a really slim size either. There are people losing weight at a couple of pounds a year and happy with it. There are others who say they have hit their target weight but for me or you that would still be forty pounds away from our own. So, yah, people eat all sorts of “keto” foods that would make either of us put on weight. But we’re at a very different place in the journey.
When I started keto I was making these date and almond butter balls that were filled with all sorts of nuts and seeds. I have no idea why I thought they were keto, but I did. And I was eating several of them every day. Probably 50 grams of carbs there alone. I still lost weight. Until one day, I was no longer losing weight. And then I had to get rid of those balls.
Okay just arrived here to help prep and it’s chicken sausage!!! So game plan per above is eat less. When I get home what can I eat that’s fatty as I haven’t meal prepped anything. Any ideas aside from just eating a tablespoon of an oil or butter. I feel like I should have broken fast earlier today and eaten fat! Thanks for being my support system!
My go-to is just to always have some fatty leftovers around. Or I usually have a big pot of meaty soup that I’ll add tallow to in order to get it extra fatty. Have you got eggs and bacon?
And yes, breaking the fast early is a good idea. Eating at home beforehand, on such occasions, is how many people deal with eating out in uncertain circumstances.
Also chicken sausage!!! Why, oh, why? Is that even food?
We are on a roll Ilana! Weekend is almost up and I have not cheated. I’m also down to 108 flat! I must have been on the cusp of my keto diet and your advice and the accountability has pushed me over the hump! I did not eat after the party as I figured the two tablespoons of oil were enough and I got home late that it just didn’t make sense. But I’ll now know what to do in future (having leftovers around to supplement). I think I did well overall as I didn’t snack at the party. Normally I would do the keto-ish snacks (nuts, salami etc).
Going back to my recipe comment (on my phone so don’t know how to insert the quote), you’re so right when you said we are in a different place in the journey. I just go and look for ideas on Instagram and the blogs as I love to cook but I need to keep It in mind that the recipes are not ideal. I think I also mentioned my friends are on the diet as is my husband (he only does it in segments vs as a lifestyle) but I see my friends and husband eat way more carbs and veggies and all this stuff and they continue to lose that I automatically think well why can’t I have celery and ranch or nuts etc (just as examples). But they’re much bigger individuals and with more weight to lose and I get each individual has different biochemistry and tolerance. It’s just one of those things, you compare and are like well they’re having a keto cookie, I want one too.
I made a huge pork shoulder today and had it for lunch and plan to eat throughout the week and will alternative with my pseudo chili. Fingers crossed for the week!
This is wonderful! You are responding super quickly. I think I’m almost as happy about it as you are… lol!
Yup, trust me, if and when your friends ever get to nearly lean, as you are now, they too will have to restrict more “treats” if they want to get those last few fat pounds.
And you can still have treats. Just not all the time. I go off plan from time to time but whenever the scale starts to flirt with 110 lbs I pull back again until it’s back below 106 lbs. And it’s easy now because I know how. But it’s important to set a limit. For me the absolute top weight I will allow is 112 lbs and if it gets to that then I will go strict “all-beef-binge-buster”.
Up .3….Not the end of the world but I did screw up….I feel it’s best I post and hold myself accountable. I really hope you don’t mind, I feel like you’re the only one that truly understands this last push. And I really hope the people on the forum don’t mind, I know it sounds obsessive, but this is a goal and we all have different goals and with that we all need support and guidance.
I thought Sunday was going to be the easiest, but Sunday is also the day when I just hang around and make food….I did well overall, but my husband was having wine in the evening (one of my favorites I might add) BUT I didn’t have any. I stuck to my promise……however, in lieu I thought to myself I’m doing so good, pecans are high fat….let me just have a handful to make sure I have some fiber (yes I know I’m just lying to myself). So I did I had a handful which equates to about ¼ cup and I did have 1 single square of lindt 90% dark chocolate (I know I know bad). Yesterday, I also had 2 meals (once at 2 of just pork and half avocado) and at 6 pm I had one bowl of my keto chili ( I made it with the 55% lean beef, 2 cup tomatoes for the whole thing (so 14 grams carbs total across the entire dish), chili powder, ½ onion, 2 garlic cloves). I assume the chili will have about 5 servings total….
So what went wrong – I naturally would assume it was the pecans/chocolate, or that I ate too much, perhaps my pork was too lean, or is the keto chili too high in carbs for your liking and I need to scrap it. I have steak in freezer I can make instead if you think the chili is a bad call.
I just checked my supplies as I haven’t measures my blood in a while (after my incident), I checked the purchase dates and the ketone strips are 12 months old (generally the Keto mojo said to use within 6 months), blood glucose strips are 8 months old (again same rule of 6 months). Not sure if they will be accurate, but I will check right prior to breaking my fast (at around 1 pm). So far I’ve only had my medicine and a half cup of cold brew (Califia brand, just coffee (doesn’t’ contain any almond milk etc like their other varieties).
No cheat is ever the end of the world. Nor is going up .3 pounds. Honestly all but a an ounce or so is probably inflammation and water from the extra carbs so you can lose it quickly again. But it’s very good to post everything you do as it will absolutely help with accountability and it will help drill into your mind the sorts of things you did the day or days before a gain.
Sometimes after a cheat the scale will trend upward for two days even if you tighten up so don’t be discouraged if that happens. Just pay attention so you are aware of the cost benefit calculus for the next time.
I do understand. My figure has always been something that gave me great pleasure when it was in form and led to reduced confidence and outgoingness when it was not. Feeling attractive and fit affects my moods, attitude and persona. If others take issue with that then it’s really their issue and not mine.
You’re on one of my personal accountability threads and an old one at that. This is not derailing any other current conversation and so anyone who isn’t interested in this discussion can tune it out or mute it. No one should mind who isn’t just being petty.
Yup. And as you’ve said most of the forum is dedicated to people battling more than those last pesky 5 lbs and the tips can be quite different.
I actually don’t think nuts are a good keto food. They are much like dairy. They are an insidious and delicious mix of carbohydrates and fats and I strongly believe that they impact our brains and physiology in a similar way to sugar. I now stay away from any food that mixes carbohydrates and fats. I know people say nuts are good keto because blah, blah fiber and fat but I don’t think they are, and the evidence lies in how many people do so much better on keto after swearing off of them.
Fiber is not a freebie either. Dr. Westman is one of the foremost keto physicians and he insists that his patients follow a total carb plan. I strongly agree with this. Especially for anyone struggling.
So my recommendation is to stay away from nuts if you can. The fats in them just don’t satiate the way meat fat does. In fact, they are quite moreish. A few always leads you to want more. I think they are pro inflammatory too, at least they are for me. When I eat them I generally gain weight.
Awesome, I’d be very interested in working with your actual glucose and ketone numbers. I think this is the absolute best way to see where you are, the effects foods are having on you, and how to troubleshoot your diet.
Here are my own numbers from yesterday at 4:30 pm. These aren’t even fasted as I’d had a small breakfast of some turkey sauteed in tallow and some cream in my coffee ( my own nemesis ).
Glucose 60
Ketones 3.7
Don’t expect anything like those. I’m following the strictly carnivore, ultra high fat, paleolithic ketogenic diet prescribed by the Paleo-Medicina clinic because it seems to perfectly control all my medical issues. But that diet is strictly meat and fat, fats are over 80% of food, and food quantities are restricted as are protein amounts. But everyone on this diet loses weight well.
So what I’m trying with you (since you want to keep your veggies and I completely understand this) is to approach the Paleo-Medicina diet with some vegetables. In fact the do prescribe a more relaxed version of their carnivore diet to people who are not so ill and just trying to lose weight or treat metabolic syndrome.
But anyhow, the reason that testing glucose and ketones is important is that it can help you identify whether you are getting too much protein, too much total food, and too little fats. Paleo-Medicina asks their patients to adjust their individual diets to achieve specific glucose and ketone results. They find this very effective in both weight loss and their clinical results.
What medications do you take and for what?
It’s probably a bit of both. I don’t think having a second meal occasionally is a big issue though. It’s probably healthy metabolically to change things up a bit. But you are always going to be more likely to see a small uptick on days after you’ve eaten more. You shouldn’t sweat that though. Watch the trend. My own experience is that if I’m being really good the scale will always show it over a three day period. If I don’t see that I will tighten something up.
I watched his video after your comment and nuts are off the table for now and what he said made sense just 1 cup of veggies (measured), I can do that… Unfortunately, I watched the video after having about 7 macadamia nuts and 1/4 cup of my pumpkin seeds…
So I’m down .1 pound, it’s something considering that I did eat nuts and pumpkin seeds. I also did do my 1 hour workout which is I would say medium intensity, so maybe some inflammation…
I’m so glad this didn’t happen, it’s really demotivating. So I will take the .1 loss anyday although am quite disappointed with myself.
Today it’s back to the pork shoulder and maybe I’ll top it with some of the beef fat from the chili. I did feel slightly hungry last night, so maybe I’ll eat slightly more. I’ll report back with glucose and ketones to make sure my protein yesterday wasn’t too high.
You totally get me…two peas…
I’ve been going back through the thread, as I’m just trying to reinforce the information and noticed you had a recipe for short ribs. I saw the low and slow but not the temp. Can you confirm as I’d like to make this?
I’ve changed some things probably since I wrote that post. I like my beef cooked at around 175 these days. For short ribs since they require a long cook I’d either cook them in a covered pot or wrap in foil. For some extra flavour you can broil them for a few short minutes beforehand, but only long enough to sear the outside as you don’t want to lose all the rareness. Then add whatever spices etc that you like. I just use salt these days.
And don’t be so disappointed. It’s a learning process that never really ends. Every time you do the wrong thing and think it through makes it less likely that you’ll do something similar again the next time.
We really are human, and you have to remember that in our evolutionary history fattening up was a great thing. It’s food storage on the body for leaner times. So we are designed to love the things that will make us fat. There is no getting away from that. And your genetic hardwired instincts are very powerful. Now, in our current world, food is everywhere and abundant and our natural instincts are killing us.
Westman is good. He’s dry and a bit boring to watch but his advice is very solid. He’s not alone on the subject of nuts either. Pretty much every keto doc will say nuts and dairy should be the first things to jettison upon reaching a significant stall.
Sorry to clarify cook at 175 in oven or until it reaches 175. I’ll likely make in Dutch oven covered with a little water to get some moisture and then broil as you said. Just curious how long to bake at this temp
Cook at 175. I usually go for about 6 hrs for this cut. I’m hopeless for recipes. I never even pay good attention to what I’m doing and I tend to experiment a lot since going carnivore. Getting all the fat from meat sources was a serious initial challenge especially since my husband, who’s never been a picky eater, really didn’t like my initial attempts at cooking fat. I don’t blame him, they weren’t great…lol. I had to eat them tjough so I kept tinkering. But the slow and low method has been a lifesaver. The fat stays in a form that we both like tremendously and it even works for cooking pure beef fat.
readings prior to breaking fast:
Ketones 3.0
Glucose 66
Really hope these are accurate as the test strips are over 6 months. I also have just run out of the ketone strips so won’t be able to test for a few days.
I will still remain on keto during my vacation, but perhaps go back to my old style which included more veggies and I will likely have some drinks.
).