I really need help

(Tad Sampson) #1

I was diagnosed with DT2 in November/2020. I got a fever and felt like I was dying. I lost a lot of weight in a period of 4 days while on Fever. Probably from 290 to 250. I looked horrible.
My doctor sent me to the lab and they showed that I have DT2, with glucose 345 and A1C of 12.9. I also had a severe infection on my prostate. It was caused by the diabetes.
I got prescribed Trulicity. I decided that I don’t want to manage it, I wanted to get rid of the Diabetes.
I already knew about fasting and Dr. Jason Fung and started my fasting every 36 hours.
My first day of fasting was 12/4. My glucose didn’t want to go down for at least 3 weeks, yes it was going down, but very slow. After 3 weeks, I had fasting for 72 hours and that drop my blood sugar to normal levels, some days I woke up and had less 100. It was a seldom occurrence, but it was welcome news.
I kept the 36 hours fasting for close to 4 months and went back to the Doctor. My A1C was 7.1 and I told her that I didn’t take the medicine.
My wife was doing the same with me, she had stroke 2 years ago (transient, so no long term damage).
We switched to OMAD for the next 3 months, the results slow down a little bit, we had another 72 hours fasting to correct it.
Went again and my A1C was 5.8.
So, I can say my new life style was working and I am keeping it for life (no carbs).
My diet the first 3 month was like Dr. Fung suggested to eat moderate, but you could eat anything. I did that, and I saw sugar spikes.
So, I removed most of the carbs, only left some non-green vegetables to help with high blood pressure.
Blood pressure changed from 160s/80s to low 140s/70s seldom 130s/70s and few less 120s. 85 % of the time is in the 140s.
I was getting more into keto and now I went to very strict keto.
So, now is September 2021, I feel better overall.
My issues and I don’t see improvement and I feel frustrated ( I am not thinking on quitting. I am thinking what am I missing).
Blood sugar still high (Looking at others, youtube, postings, etc. it should be lower). No medicine.
Dawn effect is high while on Keto from 102 to 119. When I was fasting only it was below 100.
I have not loose any single pound since December 2020. I gained a few pounds and they came down to go back to 246.
Same for my wife.
My clothing went from 3XL to loose 2XL (but the majority was caused by the illness and fever).

Should I forget about Keto and go back to 36 hour fasting and long fasting.
Why Keto does not have effect on me.
The answer to all your questions is “no”. I don’t eat carbs, I don’t cheat, etc. It is my life and I won’t put it again on jeopardy eating bad stuff. So the answer is no.
It is almost a year and I don’t loose weight.

Any ideas?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

Firstly, welcome to the forums! You have quite a story, and thank you for sharing it with us. I suspect that, in order to help you, we will need more information, such as your age and height, an idea of what it is you are eating, how many meals a day, your fasting schedule, and the like.

This sentence caught my eye, because we recommend eating pretty much only leafy greens and vegetables that grow above ground, such as broccoli and cauliflower. Most of the non-green vegetables have quite a bit of sugar and not enough fibre to be useful on a low-carb diet.

High blood pressure is caused by elevated insulin, which is usually in response to a diet high in carbohydrates. Given that you have been diagnosed with Type II diabetes, you are probably highly insulin-resistant, which is a situation in which your pancreas needs to secrete more insulin than normal, in order to force cells to respond. Insulin resistance can take a long time to reverse, and you haven’t been on this way of eating for a year, yet, so give yourself plenty of time. You have already seen improvements, and you can likely expect more over time.

As far as the weight loss is concerned, again, give yourself time. Your body may be taking time to readjust before shedding more fat. When you feast between fasts, be sure not to skimp on the calories, because that signals the body there is a famine going on. The body will be willing to shed fat only during times of abundance.

If you share your fasting/feasting schedule along with the diet information I mentioned above, we can look at it to make sure your strategy is optimal, and we can point out any foods that might be hindering your progress.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #3

You developed T2D over the course of years. A lot of stuff is damaged and broke. As Paul notes, it’s going to take time to fix. Keto is not magic nor miraculous. Fasting and keto put you into ketosis and keep you there - that’s where you want to be and remain. You can not fast all the time so when you must eat, eat keto. “…forget about keto” makes zero sense. What’s the alternative? Eat what damaged your body in the first place?

(Tad Sampson) #4

No, like I said this a life decision. I won’t go back to eat carbs again.
I am 60 years old, male, hispanic. I normally eat one meal a day around 8 PM. If I am really hungry I would eat 2 meals a day. that does not happen often.
What I eat?
2 meals: First meal: 2 eggs cocked with butter, 5 strip of bacon, cheese (not all the time) and coffee ( I am a snob coffee lover, I roast, grind my own coffee). I won’t kill my coffee having a bullet proof coffee for that matter. That is not negotiable, coffee has to be enjoyed… blah, blah! :smiley:
I add heavy cream instead of half and half, trying to avoid milk.
Second meal, One piece of meat (pork, beef, fish), 20 grams of lettuce/kale/spinach, cheese. Water maybe 2 to 3 glasses. Every glass of water I drink has a little of Celtic salt on it. That has helped with palpitations.

1 meal: One piece of meat (pork, beef, fish), 20 grams of lettuce/kale/spinach, cheese. Water maybe 2 to 3 glasses. Every glass of water I drink has a little of Celtic salt on it. That has helped with palpitations.
If I am a little hungry before my meal around 4 or 5 pm, I have one snack (sardines or smoked oysters).

I use pure stevia 100% natural, the only ingredient is stevia.

Dessert after dinner: Cheese cake made at home. No crust (cream cheese, heavy cream, eggs, monk fruit 100% monk fruit only, vanilla). Really small piece, very tiny and coffee with heavy cream.

About cheese: I eat some Crispy Cheddar Frico once in awhile. I noticed when I eat this I am out of ketosis for 2 - 3 days. I don’t understand why?

I have a prescription for freestyle libre 14 days. That is the most useless tool. yes, I meant useless.
It gave me a false sense of security. It shows a steady blood glucose mostly on the 70’s (US measure), having low glucose from time to time. In other words I was a Superman beating diabetes.
I was so wrong. I couldn’t believe those numbers, because I was not loosing weight and how I felt.
So, I decided to check with a blood meter, 10% of the time the measure was different by 10 Points, the rest was a difference of 30 to 40 points. So what it is the point.
You can tell me all the excuses from Abbot the manufacturer: It is the pattern, that counts, It does not measure blood, it is a different measure, the measure is from 10-15 minutes ago, it is does not give real time measurements, etc.
If it is not accurate what it is the point. The problem that I had is the numbers were never the same or close amount difference. I am trying to say, that I could not add the same number all the time, they were all over the place all the time. If I said I will add as an average 25 points, to the sensor measure. I might be wrong for a lot.
I am trying to get the Dexcom one and see if this one it is better or same thing. I honestly believe those tools have a lot of potential, but they are not mature enough! I work in IT, and If I develop a software that gives those results, I would go bankrupt or they fire me.
That is my opinion , your mileage can vary.
So I this point I use a blood meter and keto-mojo. I also used urine strips to manage the expense of keto-mojo. I know the urine measurement is not the best, but It is less expensive.

The non-green vegetables that I mention before. I stopped them about 2-3 months ago. It was beet to help with my blood pressure. It didn’t have any effect so I stopped.
Vegetables that I can eat: No roots, only green leafy vegetables.

I tried to add organs to my diet, but I have a huge resistance from my chef (my wife). I told her to add small amounts to ground beef to hide the taste, so she can eat it. I really enjoy liver and other organs.

“fasting all the time” Why not? You get use to it, eventually. It is hard, but it is doable.
One reason that I wanted to not do that is my wife, she struggle to do that and this a joint journey, both needed it. So, that is my compromise.

The only side effect that I hate, I really hate from fasting is the cold. That is something that really bothers me, beside that it is manageable.

Any questions? I am an open book so ask anything.

#5

Do you watch TV?

Do you eat during the day hence during the daily cortisol wave after the 36 hours fast?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

You’ll eventually starve to death. Before that happens your metabolism will slow. Apparently, you’ve fasted extensively during the past near-year. You may well have slowed your metabolism which would help explain why you’re no longer losing weight/fat. What you’re eating looks OK, but how much is just as important. If you’re not eating enough then it won’t make up for slowing your metabolism from frequent fasting. By the way, stopping the progression of T2D was probably the most important first thing to do. Losing the fat accumulated over the course of a few years is secondary. It will come off if you keep your metabolism up. These are my opinions and if I’m missing something just ignore.

(BuckRimfire) #7

Feeling better is good, right? And congrats on getting your A1c down so low! At that number, your Freestyle Libre may indeed be reading a bit too low, but still, it is somewhat useful if you need to check the pattern for spikes from various foods. On strict keto, that may be unnecessary, though. Whatever the exact BG number, your A1c is pretty healthy.

Do you have blood test results? If your triglycerides are low, your HDL-C high, and thus your trig/HDL ratio is low, that would be a good sign.

Can you get a DEXA scan? Seeing that your visceral fat is low would be reassuring. Blood test results can be a proxy for that if getting a DEXA isn’t possible. It’s just nice to see it directly if you can.

So, if you feel good, your trig/HDL is good, and your liver fat is low, it’s tempting to say “keep doing what you’re doing.” Not losing lots of weight is frustrating, but if all else is good, maybe just put up with it?

(Tad Sampson) #8

Yes, I watch TV.

I don’t do the 36 hours anymore, because my wife couldn’t handle it. I ate 2 meals when the 36 hours were over.
So, let’s say I finished eating at 9 PM on Sunday night. I will eat again on Tuesday at 9 AM and then at night ending at 9 PM. Then I will eat again Thursday at 9 AM and so on.

There were no snacks during those times.

My glucose was below 100 fasting. Any day including meal days. That does not happen when I am on Keto or Carnivore. I forgot to add, I hate vegetables, so there a few days that I cannot eat kale :joy:

(Marianne) #9

Welcome.

I would suggest forgetting about fasting for several months and instead fuel your body consistently and predictably for a while to give it a chance to heal. For a couple of months when I started, I ate three meals a day.

Like a lot of us here, I was very overweight when I started and had done a lot of damage to my poor body from bingeing and eating carbage and processed food for most of my adult life. The few times I wasn’t doing that, I was conventionally dieting, which is just as bad and messes with your metabolism.

After eating consistently for a while, your body will give you signals that you don’t need to fuel it as often. I went from three meals a day to two, and then eventually to one. The key is that this progression was completely natural. I never experienced hunger or cravings when I went to one meal a day. If I did, I ate something (bacon, eggs, meat, etc.). I did fast for one day a week back then (24 hours), but stopped because I just didn’t care for it. I didn’t have a problem not eating, but I felt unsettled and somewhat anxious and gave it up. Not going to do that to myself anymore. That’s me - a lot of people here feel fasting is beneficial and helps them. Again, maybe for a while more, you might consider putting it on hold and eating regularly. In spite of eating well and being completely satisfied, I still lost 75 lbs. without any effort, except eating to plan. I feel healthier than I’ve ever been in my life.

Good luck to you!

(Bob M) #10

The pin-prick varieties are 100% accurate if they are within plus or minus 15 % of the real value.

I personally found both my Free Style Libres to be accurate (I had one from Sweden and one from the US). I only tested the Swedish one twice with “official” tests by a blood test at an office. One was spot on (though so was the pin prick) and one was off, though this was during an oral glucose tolerance test, and the Free Style Libre could have been behind (they read what’s in your arm, not your blood, and this supposedly takes about 15 minutes or so to stabilize).

I learned a TON using my FS Libre. For instance, my blood sugar goes up and is back down to where it started within one hour of a high carb meal. I completely missed that using pin-prick meters.

I caught a “safe” soup I ordered from an Asian restaurant (ostensibly only soup with veggies and shrimp, no noodles, rice) that caused a very high blood sugar.

The worst blood sugar food was (real) pizza. It was the exception to my blood sugar being back to normal in an hour. More like several hours.

As for keto-mojo, I tested that many times, and it was too inconsistent for me. Had two of them and compared them, and they gave me different results. It’s not worth testing, really.

Your blood sugar, ketones, etc., none of that has anything to do with weight loss. I’ve lost weight with high and low ketones (my ketones are consistently 0.1-0.2 in the mornings now).

Mix things up. Try no cheese (many people have issues with cheese, though I don’t seem to). Try higher protein, lower fat. Try eating more. Try 3 meals one day, OMAD the next day.

If you’re getting really cold while fasting, I’d suggest you’re lowering your resting energy expenditure. I had the same thing happen to me. I had to stop fasting for a long time.

Now, when I fast, I ensure that I feast. For instance, if I know I’m fasting the next day or for multiple days, I’ll eat a HECK of a lot more the day before. As in three+ meals and maybe even a lot of fat (I tend to eat lean meats, no bacon for instance, ham instead).

(Joanne) #11

First of all, congrats! You have achieved something most T2D’s never will.

I’m in a similar boat. My A1C was 12.1 and I got it down to 5.8 in 6 months (no meds) and lost 55 lbs with keto and IF (17/7). Then weight loss stalled or was at a glacial pace. I starting doing OMAD several days a week and that jump started me. It also helped bring down my fasting BG because my OMAD is mid-day. I find eating later in the day gives me a higher FBS the next morning. Another thing I do (that I have to be very careful about) is I carb up a little on my OMAD days—not a lot, just some fruit, a few crackers, some croutons on my salad, etc.

Give it more time, shuffle up your fasting/feeding windows and +/- different foods to see if you can get weight loss moving again. Just like exercise, our bodies tend to adapt to whatever we give them. Keep your body guessing. You’ve come so far and are so MUCH healthier. You just need some tweaks.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

Your food looks good; just be sure to eat enough, when eating, to avoid slowing your metabolism. A deficiency of calories signals “famine” to the body, where fasting does not.

The artificial sugars you mention might be causing you trouble, however. Some people find that one or more of the non-sugar sweeteners can have an effect on their insulin and inhibit fat loss. The good news is that if one sweetener has this effect, most of the others will not, and it’s just a matter of experimenting to find the right sweeteners to allow your fat loss to progress. I’m not saying that the stevia and monkfruit you are using are causing you trouble, only that they might, and that you might want to experiment a bit. I also find that I have to read the labels of the non-sugar sweeteners very carefully, to make sure that they don’t actually contain sugar (sucrose). The label laws in the United States permit a certain degree of deception. A little searching on the forum will help you sort that out.

The cheese you mention might contain more carbohydrate than you realise. Again, going over the nutritional label with a fine-toothed comb is essential.

As for home glucose and ketone monitors, bear in mind that an acceptable degree of accuracy is considered to be ±20%. This means it’s possible for two different readings to reflect the same actual value, and for two identical readings to reflect different actual values. Try not to invest too much into the readings you get. Knowing the overall trend can be almost as valuable as precise accuracy.

(Bob M) #13

I follow a doctor on Twitter who likes a small carb-up once per week or so. He gave the example of a set of salmon sushi. He says this helps with leptin.

Not sure how anyone would be able to determine if this is true, though it is possible to get a blood test for leptin. I can theorize a way to test for it, but it would take too many tests to be reasonable (eg, get leptin tested daily while eating “control” plan with no carbs; get leptin tested daily while eating same as before but have one night with carbs).

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #14

It would have to be done with care, however, if my understanding is correct that elevated insulin blocks the leptin receptors in the ventromedial hypothalamus. I suppose one would want to store enough fat to trigger a leptin response, without triggering an insulin response sufficient to block the leptin released by the adipose tissue.

(Bob M) #15

The person I follow mainly deals with women. But here’s an article saying it might work for women:

Now, I’ve carbed up (not for leptin), and I find it difficult to believe leptin is improved. But I’ve never tried a diet targeted to solely leptin (more like eating pizza because I’m on vacation), and it’s really difficult to get leptin tested.

#16

Did you check your glucose after the 9AM meal? Did it increase?

Cortisol in the early parts of the day increases to increase blood glucose. Eating with elevated glucose is bad in my opinion.

Watching TV increases cortisol.

#17

Hello there, I am definitely not an expert, but am wondering if you are eating enough food? I am not sure if the dessert you describe is every day or only occasionally. If not, on your OMAD days, you are eating a piece of meat, some cheese and sardines? And then fasting in between. That doesn’t seem like much nutrition for someone who weighs 250 pounds. Maybe your metabolism has slowed…? I find intense exercise is a surefire way to increase your appetite, if that’s something you want to do. Again, I’m not an expert but this is just what jumped out at me.

#18

I am with the others, you should eat enough and you wrote almost nothing about it. “One piece of meat” says nothing. I can have a tiny piece and a 1000g one as well… Today’s piece of meat is 600g for me though I don’t know if I will eat it but it’s not much (it’s not even a very fatty cut) so possibly. And it’s very very little food for anyone. Cheese and cheesecake can help but you probably don’t eat much enough of them if your meat isn’t a big amount and not even very fatty.

(Tad Sampson) #19

I don’t measure my food or count calories. I eat until I feel satiated.

same as water.

It is happening again, I started eating 2 meals and my weight started going up.
I cooked (well, my wife does it) the meat with butter and I also add butter or something else on top of the meat. I eat avocado from time to time as well.

I tried to loose weight a few years ago. The type of diet that body builders suggest. no fat and eating 6 times a day. Working out for long time.
My body changed and loose wait from 290 to 235. No matter what I did, my body didn’t want to go below 235. I didn’t look fit, I had fat all over my body and I looked obese.

Same thing now, I lost weight because the diabetes prostate related issue. (I don’t have that problem anymore). I have not loose anything else. I hit the barrier at 246 and weight back and forth to 255. For 2 weeks till now I lost from 255 to 246.2. I am going up again my weight is creeping up to 248.9.

It is like my body does not like too loose that weight. I have been big all my life. When I moved to the USA my weight skyrocketed. No one from my home country is big as me. (At least for what I remember when I lived there, almost 30 years ago).

My goal is being in the 180-185. My structure is big. I will look ridiculous and sick if I go to the ideal weight from the charts. Those charts suggest for my height is 153 lbs. I am 1.73 mts (5’8")

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #20

My ex is 5’7" (170 cm), and he always looked at his best around 154 lbs. (70 kg). Half a kilo more, and he looked pudgy, half a kilo less, and he looked gaunt and starved.