Hunger Satiety and IF?

(Full Metal KETO AF) #1

Hunger Satiety and IF?

Hey, I have been doing IF TMAD almost everyday for the last 3 1/2 months. It’s great. I had done some IF days before that of course but now I do it everyday except for occasionally when my son is here. So I have lost about 18 lbs during this time. I am approaching my goal weight (yeah!) about 10-15 more to go. I have been getting more and more interested in autophagy of course because I don’t want to look like an droopy old hound dog when I get there. :grin:

I eat early, that’s how it works for me. So breakfast is protein and fat heavy. I am at about a 16/8 on most days, sometimes 15/9. I can’t OMAD because a large meal like an OMAD requires knocks me out and made me feel ill like I pigged out on Thanksgiving. I’ve been eating smaller meals years before keto started.

So the problem is that since I have started keto it’s been drilled into my brain that I should only eat when I am truly hungry and not go by the clock. How can this work with IF? It seems to be a keto contradiction. After I eat breakfast I am not hungry all day. If I want to have a 4-6 hour eating window that requires me to look at the clock and make a decision to eat when I could easily wait another 3 or 4 hours. Maybe it’s as simple as eating a lower fat breakfast but I don’t go crazy. Eggs, HWC in coffee, Bacon (on a heavier day an 1 1/2oz of cheese and half an avo). That is quite a lot of fat and maybe it’s sustaining me too long, or I might just be metabolizing my own fat once that runs out so I don’t get hungry until 9 hours or more after breakfast :face_with_monocle:.

#2

If you don’t eat right before your window closes for the day, what happens? Do you get hungry at normal meal times, or is it a gnawing hunger that keeps you awake at night?

I can’t get the morning eating thing to work for me either, even though the theory is that’s is better than eating later in the day.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #3

Thank you Carol for responding :cowboy_hat_face: I am worried that if I attempt to go OMAD I will end up with some calorie restriction happening because I can’t eat the volume in one sitting. Maybe breakfast should be smaller and second meal the larger one? Also I have read many times here that OMAD is a better tool for maintaining than loosing weight. And EF causes drop and gain back which I don’t want to put my body through.

I have always held the belief that an earlier meal window is more effective, with less foods consumed later in the day and going several hours without eating before bed. I sleep fine going to bed a empty. If I have food digesting I don’t seem to sleep as well, I have a slight hiatal hernea and I am trying to avoid using Omeprazole, which I need more often if I have food in my stomach when I lay down. I used to sleep propped up for years because of it and now I know eating dinner early and giving my stomach 4-6 hours to digest before sleeping is best for me. Then of course I wake between 5:30-6:30 and I want coffee and afterwards I am hungry and usually eat by nine. So my second meal is between 3-4:30. I guess that I could put off breakfast but I have an early morning espresso and HWC that technically breaks my fast. I haven’t been able to get into the oil slick coffee that many ketonians seem happy drinking. I guess that I could change my early coffee habit for tea, :slightly_frowning_face: early morning coffee is probably my greatest pleasure but keto is about adapting to an optimal way of eating and living I guess.

Maybe I will try eating a smaller breakfast, and see if I get hungry earlier in the afternoon. And bulk dinner up a little to compensate so I don’t end up under eating. I am still loosing slowly and I guess that’s better than dropping lots of weight fast. I don’t have lots of loose skin, but the fat has been leaving quicker than the skin is shrinking. :cowboy_hat_face:

#4

Funny thing is, I’ve heard this many times too… But I have also heard it rebutted many times as well, since there are quite a few folks that share their story and say that doing OMAD gets them ‘their’ best results? … So, again, I think it comes down to the individual themselves, and possibly their food choices for these OMAD’s as well? Again, this is just my opinion here, and for the record, OMAD for me also gives me ‘my’ best results as far as weight loss too. (As you’ve seen on my chart) But again, it is hard to come up with a set plan, and as much as I don’t like to eat at set or certain times during the day… I do indeed eat mostly this way. Because honestly, I don’t hardly ever get hungry, and haven’t really since I switched over to this WOE/WOL? - Even whilst Fasting, I don’t break the Fast due to simply being hungry, mostly because I simply miss eating a nice meal. … And only occasionally will I get what I’m guessing is a hunger signal? It’s actually hard to explain it, but it’s like sort-of a queasy feel, but not like one that I’m about to be sick, but simply saying maybe I should eat something? (Again, hard to really explain it in words, but I honestly do miss that real hunger feeling, where I REALLY want to eat! :slight_smile: )

As far as meal sizes themselves… um, …well you know where I stand there I believe. :smile: But you are correct, that if I were to say start trying to make my daily routine strictly TMAD (meaning, every day) I too would definitely have to look at minimizing some and trying to find a balance for this.

Lastly, as to the sleeping thing… I too never liked going to bed on a full stomach, or even shortly after a meal. I much prefer to have a few (3-5) hours in between. Not only do I feel much better, sleep better, but I also don’t have any issues with heartburn or have the occasional stuff come up into my throat as it has in the past. Which could have been Acid Reflux related, but can’t say for sure either way? :slight_smile:

(mole person) #5

My best results were also all OMAD results.

#6

Yes Ma’am, that’s what I hear quite a bit. - If I, say, add more than two TMAD’s in one week (when I try to mix things up some & keep it from being like a schedule) I usually see a drop in my overall loss. But when I stick to just OMAD’s, the numbers seem more consistent, as well as better overall too.

(Wendy) #7

What about eating a little bit earlier? Is that feasible?
Then maybe you can wait until you feel hungry for your second meal.
I skip the first meal and eat when I want our get a chance for lunch. That’s just works out best for me. I almost always easy lunch but sometimes skip dinner. I just play it by ear.
I’m done losing weight and have been doing this way for over a year. I do think changing things up as far as how many meals is good. I don’t think it matters when you eat except as it affects you personally. I’m all about more quality food than amounts now.
If you’re not hungry, generally, then you don’t need more food.
The more fat a meal has the longer I personally feel satisfied. The day after a good fatty steak I may easily go 24 hours before I’m hungry again. It seems to work.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #8

That’s what I have been doing for months, I eat breakfast usually by nine or right after and I don’t get hungry till long after a 4-6 hour eating window is over. Against my normal judgement I am trying to eat less at my first meal so I get hungry for a second meal earlier, I guess if I finish eating by three it could work, just more adaptation required. Hopefully it will work, but more tweaks are still likely. It’s going to be a process to find balance. I guess I may have to take more drastic measures and reconsider OMAD, which will also be a process to make it work for me. Maybe also trying one day EF weekly might help autophagy since that’s more of a concern than weight loss which was my previous focus. I am approaching those last “stubborn pounds” now and it’s time to start exercising more now that weight loss has happened. I know muscle growth will help with some of the loose skin issue.

:cowboy_hat_face:

#9

Yes. If I eat a normal amount of food for the day in a small window, I get sleepy and have to go lie down and “digest” for a while. This is a suboptimal way to start the day for me. :smile: Every time I try different variations of early eating, I end up either not eating much or blowing the window and eating more often. I’ve resigned myself to eating between noon and 6, or even 2 and 6 sometimes.

I realize this doesn’t answer your question. More of a “me too”.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #10

@carolT I think we’re all trying to figure out some version of this same issue eventually. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Alec) #11

My view is that you should have an IF window that you stick to, and if you are hungry during your eating window then eat, otherwise don’t. Another thread was working through whether there really was a slowdown to metabolism if you are satisfying the body’s call for calories through bodyfat as required. I think the consensus was that there would be little to no slowdown. But you need to be fat adapted.

If you don’t eat much one day because you are not hungry during your eating window, then maybe you are hungrier the next day and eat more to satiate that hunger in the next day’s eating window? I think this would work ok?

(traci simpson) #12

So today was different for me. I had a big breakfast meeting and I ate (0800) and it’s now 2:57pm and I’m just getting hungry. What is your eating window is 7-7.5 hours long? any negative effects? I’m going to eat in a minute and that’s it for me until tomorrow.

(Bob M) #13

I also rarely do OMAD for this reason, and because if I want to eat with my family, I eat too late at night. I’m often home after 7pm and trying to eat OMAD at say 7:30pm then going to bed at 9pm or so, it just doesn’t work.

@Diygurl19 I ate today at about 11:30 am, and won’t eat until dinnertime. That will be about 6-6:30 pm. Tomorrow, I’ll exercise in the morning, so I’ll be lucky to make it past 10 am to eat my first meal. Then, I’ll eat at 7:30 pm, as that’s when I’ll get home with my kids after picking them up from karate and dance.

So, I eat about 7+ hours after eating the first time. I’d like to push my “lunch” further toward dinner, as I have control over when I eat this. However, I get hungry around that time. In fact, today, I tried to fast to do OMAD (since I’m eating “early” today), but got cold along with hungry. So I ate.

(traci simpson) #14

Oh good. I feel better about my window.

(traci simpson) #15

So today was a fail. I decided to eat early again which was fine and filling, however when I ate my second meal, it wasn’t very filling as it was just two chicken legs and 3 pieces of bacon. I scrounged around my office and found a can of crab but it wasn’t very tasty so I’m pretty sure I’ll be hungry again later. I don’t like eating three meals a day but I guess some days you hit and miss.

#16

Yep, some days aren’t so great, it’s life.
I can’t eat small meals. I don’t even start to eat if I don’t have a big enough meal as fasting isn’t such a big deal but if I eat a bit, I will feel very unsatisfied and way hungrier than before. So maybe you should be a bit more prepared if you want to avoid 3 meals a day. But if it’s rare, it’s probably not such a big deal.

It’s so tough to get our eating window right sometimes. Some folks find something, it clicks and they can do it long term. I always had some problems. TMAD was too many calories but I needed 2 meals. Finally, I changed (just a few years passed), I didn’t need my dinner anymore, let’s do OMAD! It was nice then I realized my eating abilities diminish on OMAD, I can’t eat as big meals as before, at least not in normal circumstances. I underate, slightly but my body hates that too, fell off the wagon and overate to balance things out. I chose less satiating food but nope, it didn’t work long term. TMAD days happened but falling off the wagon is easier then, I love having similar days.
Now I almost/barely get hungry at dinnertime so I can have a bigger meal (though I didn’t test it longer term). A small meal usually lasted for 12 hours so a big one later is quite safe, then I sleep and wake up completely satiated.
We will see. I surely won’t force anything and never cared about advices when it’s about very individual things. Each to their own.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #17

So I started this thread quite a while back when I was new to IF. I reduced from 15/9 and 16/8 down to 19/5 eventually and really started losing more weight. I reduced my humongous breakfast to a little smaller but still very satisfying size and got in the habit of cooking my afternoon supper at about 2-2:30. It turned out to be very easy for me. I was 165 lbs when I started this thread and I lost 20 lbs more with IF. This last week I have finally taken the plunge into EF. The first day I was very upset and lost my appetite. Then after sleeping I felt kind of hungry the next day but decided to ride it out. So I fell into a 48 hour fast quite easily. There’s lots of talk about how the second day really gets you hungry but that wasn’t my experience, I drank a cup of black espresso and I was fine. Then two days later worse news came and I lost my appetite again. This time the second day was a breeze. I’m still fasting now, getting ready to go to bed and I am at 57 hours now. I plan on going to 72 hours and see how I feel then. I dropped about 4.5 lbs this week, I had no regain after the first 48 hour fast. So working at the IF conditioned me for the EF now and I feel great and energized without food. I’m going for serious autophagy now that I am in maintenance.

@Diygurl19 Tracy, I know you can do this. It just takes some gentle manipulation and adjustments till you get to a balance between meal sizes and windows that work for your life. I’m going to bet that you can do some EF too if you work towards it. I think the biggest block was mental, the fear of hunger. But I have grown to like it a bit, not so much the hunger but with the smooth constant energy flow and higher ketone levels I’m feeling a real mental clarity without fatigue. Good luck to you.

:cowboy_hat_face:

#18

I was going to 24 hour fast today after too much cheese and blueberries yesterday. Was hungry at 1.30pm, so had eggs breakfast. KCKO.

(traci simpson) #19

I’m only four days into my carnivore journey so I don’t know how much to prepare. Today I have a ribeye and two scrambled eggs. Will that be enough? don’t know.

(Edith) #20

My body seems to have naturally switched to TMAD (~16/8) on carnivore. I’m a morning person, so I am usually pretty hungry by 10 or 11 am. I eat a big breakfast and them I’m good for about 6 hours or so. I eat dinner by 5 or 6 pm.

But, the schedule seems to rotate. For example
Day1: Meal 1 at 11:30, Meal 2 at 6:00
Day 2: Meal 1 at 10:00 am, Meal 2 at 5:00 pm
Day 3: Meal 1 at 9 am, Pork rind snack at 4:00, Meal 2 at 5:30.
Day 4: wake up starving, eat three meals that day.

Then, my body is so full from the three meals, I slip back into the TMAD schedule.

Who know? You may find something like that happens.