But then why does protein modified fasting work as I’d anticipate individuals are eating more than 1g protein per lean body mass?
How much protein should be consumed in keto diet
Janie
(Jane)
#23
People forget the protein macro is a MINIMUM so you maintain muscle mass while losing fat. Eating more won’t hurt. Most people can’t overeat protein like they can French fries.
Keto6468
(Karen)
#24
Wasn’t it Amy Burger who said that a steak doesn’t instantly turn into cake. And that you don’t need to worry too much about eating a fair amount of protein. So I think the point was not to worry too much about glyconeogenesis.
Shortstuff
(Allie)
#25
Mavro
#26
I believe it was @amwassil that pointed me to this article written by Amy Berger:
It corrected a lot of my misconceptions on how our bodies use protein. Long read but a really good read.
Iskandar
#27
I’m 170lbs give or take 5lbs 10% BF so 74kg LBM or so (all off the top not precise calcs) consuming about 240-300g protein/day No issues. Almost parallel with my fat consumption.
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#28
I also don’t worry about protein. I have been eating a lot of “roasts”, like top round, bottom round, eye of round, for lunch. Super easy to make either in an oven or in a sous vide, can add some olives, capers, pickled mushrooms, or leave plain. Makes a nice lunch.
I use about a pound for lunch, this is for top round:
139 grams of protein. Last week, I also added a can of sardines, for another 18 grams I think (the cans are at work, and I’m at home). That’s 156 grams of protein. For my first meal of the day.
Back a few years ago, the wife and I read Jimmy Moore’s Keto Clarity. In it, he recommended eating fat and said that if you’re still hungry, you haven’t eaten enough fat. What I found was that fat never sated me. I could eat as much of it as I wanted.
Then, I bought a year’s supply of a CGM, and attempted to prove that high protein = candy bar. This was my blood sugar after fasting 36 hours, working out that morning, and eating over 160 trams of protein in one meal:
My notes for that meal:
Now, this is potentially a special case, as it was after 36 hours, but what I found was that as long as I ate low carb/keto, my blood sugar was incredibly stable. Here’s a random sampling from 2017:
About a year ago, I tried the Croissant Diet, which is a test to see if saturated fat caused high satiety. While there were times I could get high satiety, if I could pack enough saturated fat into a single meal, I gained over 20 pounds, very quickly. All in my belly. I blew through my size 34 pants, past most of my 36s, and had to even buy some 38s. I found that eating real croissants or 10% fat yogurt plus cacao plus chocolate led to zero satiety. I could eat as much as I wanted. I had to stop myself from eating more.
I’ve gone back to eating (much) higher protein, lower fat, and have lost most of the weight I gained. I’m back into all my 36s, but I’m still outside my 34s. Hope to get there soon, though.
So, for me, fat is detrimental and protein is not.
I 'm thinking this may be genetic, at least in part. I’m going to get a genetic test. Something like this perhaps:
Now, I do think that some people can benefit from a high (animal) fat diet. See Amber O’Hearn and Siobhan Huggins on Twitter, for instance. And I think transitioning from SAD to high fat might not be a bad idea, as protein does have an insulin response.
But I think some (many?) people can limit their fat and increase protein with beneficial effects.
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#29
Hmm…That was supposed to link to a Reddit post about genetic testing for saturated fat. I guess I don’t know how to link to Reddit.
Shortstuff
(Allie)
#30
I agree and think I’m one of them. Recently I’ve been eating a pound of ground beef a day, made into burgers with just salt / pepper, sometimes ground chilli, added plus other stuff throughout the day. The beef itself (20% fat) is apparently 92g protein yet supposedly I should only need to eat around 55g a day, but I feel great and am building muscle very well.
Shinita
#31
55g? I am a short and not particularly active woman and I think 70-90g protein should be adequate for me…? I rarely can stop before 120g. That may be one of the mysterious almost fixed numbers of my body. It’s almost impossible for me not to get hungry again if I am below and it doesn’t matter if I eat 200+ g fat (maybe if it’s fat tissue, that satiates me but I can’t really test eating little protein, I eat a quite small meal and it’s already 100g… my protein is very stubborn, I get it on my super rare low-cal days too without trying). I tracked a lot in the last several years and <120g almost never worked, I missed something and that wasn’t fat as I very nearly always ate enough or rather more than enough fat at that point.
I typically eat 100-200g protein a day (my attitude is eating as little protein as I comfortably can without massively overeating fat. not like I have any control worth to mention. I go beyond 200 more often than below 100 if I remember correctly but I still stay in the range 80-220g. my fat range is bigger) but occasionally I go lower. Never two days in row I guess (I may track but my memory is bad regarding numbers). Interestingly, it’s hard for me to go higher. It’s probably the calories as I rarely go below 60% fat and never below 50 (but I need extreme focus for 50% as I must go against my instincts and tastes a bit. and I immediately eat a lot of fat afterwards. so I can’t try out lean eating and much fattier food usually results in overeating).
Shortstuff
(Allie)
#32
Yeah there’s no way I could survive on the recommended amount for my body size (120lbs). Today I’m at 189g according to my tracker.
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#33
I think if what you are doing is “eating real food”, it’s going to be fairly easy to go “over” protein based on whatever metric you want to use. Here’s a pound of ribeye:
112 grams of protein.
(Note that these are from Nutrition IX, and there are other locations that don’t quite agree with these numbers, producing either more or less protein for the same weight.)
Now, you could eat less meat and add fat somehow, but that’s not really “eating whole food”. I’ve added beef suet, raw from frozen, for instance, and ate less meat. I’ve even tried eating a lot of beef suet first, then eating (a lot) less meat. But beef suet and my stomach don’t quite get along. And I don’t seem to get any satiety benefit – at least that I could determine – from eating more suet and less meat.
And I don’t really like pork fat for some reason, unless it’s from Fire In a Bottle’s pigs, but I can’t get that very often. I do like bacon, but I can easily – and I mean EASILY – overeat bacon. Same with nuts.
Some might get away with eating an avocado, which I guess qualifies as “real food”. But I don’t like those.
For me, this means I’d rather eat lean meat and not be concerned about protein. I also get a very high satiety from protein. Obviously, if that’s not true for you (say, protein = hunger), then you should choose a different path.
Iskandar
#35
I think it’s safe to say around 30% of calories or more.
To simplify, this would be close to a gram per gram of each. 300g fat = 2,700kcal 300g pro = 1,200 where 1,200 kcal or 300g protein = 30% of total calories when you combined fat and pro calories (3,900).
A diet of 2,600kcal 200g fat and 200g protein again gram for gram gives you 30% kcal from protein.
coopdawg
#36
I’m only new to this. I was 100 kilos, diagnosed with type 2 diabetes at the age of 45…because I put on weight after getting a mainly desk job (from being an active electrician on the tools). From 2017 I gradually put on weight, and obviously developed insulin resistance, high blood pressure…and even sleep apnea which required a CPAP machine. (I live in Northern Ireland (UK) btw…the NHS has 'Sleep Clinics). I started Ketogenic diet last May (2021). This is December 2021, but in October I was told I don’t need to continue with Metformin meds, I had already stopped the CPAP as it wasn’t required, my liver function markers have halved (I had NAFLD), and I now weigh 77 kilos. I’ve lost over a fifth of of my body weight, and I no longer have to hold my breath to tie my shoe laces. I have recommended this to so many people now. Anyway, back to subject. I’ve never worried about anything apart from excluding carbs, or keeping them to a minimum. It’s worked for me- although everyone’s metabolism varies. I stopped drinking beer and wine too, and switched to Gin and slimline tonic (hey, I’m Irish- I need this) which i believe has helped incredibly- but it’s all about not eating carbs. I add MCT oils to coffee sometimes if I’m going to skip early morning breakfast, but apart from that I just munch out on any protein that attracts me, and don’t worry about the attached fat. Hope that helps 
Pjam
(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat )
#37
I’ve been trying to visualise a good amount of protein.
At 74kg I should have about 74g of protein, a 10oz steak would be about 36g of protein, so one meal one steak would be about half my daily amount.
2 similar meals and I’d be on target.
Sound right?
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#39
This says a 10 ounce rib eye has 50 grams of protein:
But you can try keeping your protein intake to 74g/day and see how that feels. Then run a few days with no protein limit, and compare.
Pjam
(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat )
#40
Thanks. Problem is I’m having too much protein I think. If that steak is 50g of protein I must be having 100g plus … if 1.5 ratio was OK I’d be about right
Shinita
#41
I usually eat 130-180g protein… Sometimes less, sometimes more… 74g just never happens, way too low for me. Sometimes I wonder what is my protein need. Theoretically it can’t be 2g/kg for LBM but it seems I definitely need more for satiation. Depends on my items a bit though.
@Pjam, what is the amount that your body is content with? Can’t you use that? Maybe not as you get satiated and everything with much fat and not so much protein, I am aware it’s a thing and my body is somewhat of a weirdo…
Pjam
(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat )
#42
I guess I’m trying to push for more weight loss and more energy 74g for me would be 1:1 ratio … but I’m sure I’m never 1:1, I eat over 100g for sure