How much fat? What about for losing weight?

fat
science
weightloss

(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #43

A whole stick is ~800 calories. I’ve often taken off a large bite or worked my way through a stick over the course of a few hours, but yeah, a whole stick in one go would be hard to swallow.


#44

@Madeleine I’ve heard this as well. I tried to find scientific articles supporting it, but couldn’t. I’d like to know.


#45

@MelTar It was Dr Fung. Here’s the article.


(Allie) #46

Interesting read. I do like Dr Fung’s work.


#47

NO KIDDING.

I’m listening to Dom D’Agostino right now answering email questions on Tim Ferris’ podcast (#172) (52:02):

Q. “Should I count my calories…[on a ketogenic diet]? If I don’t worry about calories, will I gain weight on a ketogenic diet?”

A. "[Laughter] So, yes, of course she will. It’s simple thermodynamics. If you’re putting in more calories into your body than you’re burning off, those surplus calories are going to end up as stored body fat or manifest itself in metabolic derangement over time…Sometimes people will go crazy with some of the ketogenic diet foods that are sort of indulgent like butter or sour cream or a bag of macadamia nuts or cashews…And this is really important to understand. The energy density of the ketogenic diet is about 2x that of a normal diet. So the volume of food that you’re eating is smaller, and it may seem like you’re restricting yourself…But chances are over time, you’ll inadvertently self-restrict on the ketogenic diet…"

He then describes that the ketogenic control of hunger - and this self-occurring natural decrease in calorie consumption, is what makes the ketogenic diet so effective.

My takeaway? You don’t have to necessarily count calories, but they still count.


(G. Andrew Duthie) #48

This is a gross oversimplification at best, and pretty much completely useless from a “what should I eat” standpoint.

Among the things it ignores:

  1. Are you fat-adapted?
  2. How high is your insulin?
  3. Are you eating carbs? Overeating protein? Eating fat beyond sateity?

Healthy eating cannot be boiled down to a tweet, ripped abs or no.


(What The Fast?!) #49

I hear that a lot, but I’ve been talking to people who are doing their own n=1 and losing weight on over-eating calories (while keeping protein moderate and very low carbs, but upping fat majorly). I’m talking 2500-4500 calories and they’re losing…so I’m starting to rethink things. I personally think that when you overfeed, your body upregulates all of its functions and figures out a way to expend the additional calories, rather than storing them.


#50

Exactly. This sums it up very nicely. Without knowing the metabolic state or status people are doing things or eating things in, it’s all noise. For example, I’d think the CICO-equation in someone in deep ketosis and fat adapted ultimately applies very differently than in someone who’s a glucose burner eating 300g of carbs a day.


(Adam Kirby) #51

It expends the additional dietary calories, yes, but does that then translate over to burning body fat? I’m not sure there’s any good evidence one way or the other for that.


(What The Fast?!) #52

If you look at all the over-feeding studies, it seems that the “Calories Out” portion of CICO is certainly variable. The more you feed your body, the more it expends, so while the equation might work, there’s no way to know for sure how many “calories out.”

Anyway, I’m going for my own n=1, so I guess we’ll see how it goes.


(Sjur Gjøstein Karevoll) #53

I think it depends a lot on the state your body is in. If you are healthy in both body and mind I think the body is much more comfortable spending energy than when something is wrong. An unhealthy diet is going to cause weight gain, and it has several paths to doing that. One of them is the stress it causes the body through micronutrient deficiencies, constant high blood glucose etc. that makes you hungry despite already having sufficient calories. So if you overeat while unhealthy you’re going to store those extra calories. If on the other hand you’re healthy the body’s going to think maybe that energy is better spent doing something productive like exploring and making babies.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #54

I defy anyone to eat too many calories on a keto diet. I suppose there might be some people who could force themselves, and surely there are people with hormonal problems, but I get to a point where the thought of one more bite leaves me cold, and if I really try to force it in, I gag. I suspect this will hold true for most people.

It’s like that interviewer who tried to get Gary Taubes to admit you could gain weight eating LCHF, if you ate 10,000 calories a day, and Taubes was saying, but who could eat that much fat? I could do it with carbs, sure, but fat? No way!


(Doug) #55

Paul, that’s a good point. Fat tends to be so very satisfying - not that one could not do it, physically, perhaps, but in practice it sounds highly improbable to me. With protein, I’d say there is more of a chance (I’ve eaten some mighty big pieces of meat, once in a while). Yet there too, day in and day out - it’s much less likely than with carbohydrates. My experience is that after a ‘big meat’ day, you really don’t want it for a while.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #56

Doug, that’s the thing I love so much about keto. I can eat carbs till I burst and then some—“Just one more wafer-thin mint”—but eating a low-carb meal, I just naturally get to the point of having enough!!!


#57

Robb Wolf and Joe Rogan had a great discussion on this. They discussed when Adam Richman of Man vs. Food fame hit the wall in eating something fatty like burgers or something, he’d “climb the wall” by actually eating something carby like bread to stimulate his ability to eat more. That always resonated with me and I find it fascinating (and true, in my experience).


(Mike Glasbrener) #58

I am just not all that hungry for a “big meal” any more. I’m certain my stomach has “shrunk” in the last 6 months. So eating a big low carb high fat meal would leave me uncomfortably full. i.e. well beyond satiety.


(Tsering M) #59

however, there WAS a thread of discussion accompanying that tweet🙃


(stacey kersting) #60

Yes, caffiene can spike your blood sugar levels. You may want to experiment with skipping it, as it spikes cortisol, which triggers fat storage…again, results may vary. Some ppl can consume caffiene on keto, others wd prolly get better results without it. I thot I’d die without coffee, but I replaced it with Bengal Spice tea (widely availble). Fantastic rich flavor…don’t miss coffee at all.


(Mike W.) #61

I definitely cannot eat as much as I used to, No matter how hard I try


(MooBoom) #62

It took a while to kick in for me, but after 5 weeks strict keto my fat satiety cues are kicking in. For example yesterday I was nomming on blue cheese and Camembert and pate (:yum:) and relishing every mouthful slowly. After quite a bit of each, I no longer felt the need to keep eating- literally reached for another piece and realised I didn’t want it anymore. I sat with that for 5 mins to see if I was indeed satiated, and yep- desire to continue eating had entirely abated.

Anyone else able to share what happens to them when they reach satiety on fat?