How I kicked my stall (which some may not consider a stall)


#41

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Excellent advice @CaptainKirk! Thanks. :+1:


#42

They recently suggested, on the podcast, eating a big breakfast in the morning, so when you reach those difficult hours (most people have trouble around hour 19 apparently) you’ll be asleep. Hopefully, it won’t be so bad, it wakes you up. :grin:


(Kirk Wolak) #43

Monique,
Give me your details… WHAT exactly are you eating?
Are you using Artificial Sweeteners? Diet Sodas? Eating things that contain MSG? Having Coffee?
[I measure their effects on my Blood Glucose and was shocked. MSG makes me Ravenous]

I talked to someone who was “Following a Keto Program” but they were eating FRUITS every night with unsweetened whipped cream. Unfortunately, Fruits are HORRIBLE for some people.

I would like the details… Because that is where I find what might be the cause. ALSO, for me, I am allergic/reactive to about 45 different things. Eat them, and I gain weight, get inflammed, Blood Pressure goes up, etc. (including Lettuce, Tomatoes, Cucumbers, Cabbage, Egg Whites, Cheese/Dairy, Olives, Mushrooms…) I will also get Migraines from them. (Imagine eating a CUP of Olives and Mushrooms and gaining 4lbs overnight!!!)

We have to DEBUG this ourselves. Because I feel better fasting, than fed… I went to Carnivore and an Elimination diet. HUGE difference immediately. Weight falls off.

About ketone levels… I was in your shoes under Atkins. But I was eating Eggs and Cheese EVERY DAY (one or both)… I never felt great, but lost weight, and could not wait to stop eating that way. It was torture. Now I know I am allergic. I avoid those things, and I feel great. CANT WAIT to stay ON this program to maintain! Huge difference. BUT ANOTHER is that my Ketone Levels are HUGE now. I am in a 3.5 to 6.5 range! (I am on Day 3 of a 7 day fast). But even when eating OMAD or MWF I am in that range…

I eat NEAR ZERO carbs. 90% Carnivore (I have some nuts, and Avocado, which I seem to tolerate).
[I LOVE veggies, BTW, so it SUCKS they cause me so many problems]

But lets look at what you are eating. And be specific. Do you have 1 oz of Cream in your coffee, or do you FREE POUR Cream… Are you drinking dairy, are you snacking in your eating window.

Which reminds me: TRF (Time Restricted Feeding). I only eat INSIDE of a 30 minute window when I eat.
NO GRAZING. (I push it to 60 in some cases, where I have to TASTE food to cook it properly, but I try to limit this). And I drink water or iced tea. NO SWEETENERS! NO ALCOHOL!

The artificial sweeteners was throwing off my ketone levels. They may have ZERO carbs, but they DO NOT HAVE Zero effect on your blood glucose (And DO NOT trust anyone elses tests… Especially if they are KETO/Fat adapted. Their results WILL NOT be yours).

Finally, Fat Adaptation takes 6+ weeks for most people. It took me that long, and you will feel the difference. For now, eat more fat. Add fat to your meal until you are satiated! (BTW, this is why I eat only one meal on days I eat. Because I can pack away a days calories EASILY getting satiated. Eating bacon and avocados and sardines or ribeyes… I will sometimes do a shot of Coconut oil just to keep the fat content high, and ensure satiety.)

Let us know. Maybe we will see something you are doing that is slowing you down.


(Monique ) #44

Kirk,

I too have some food intolerances which is why I went primal way back when. I don’t eat too much I can call artificial.

Drinks 90 to 120 oz water

Coffee 8 oz with 1 tablespoon heavy cream around 6:45am. If I’m trying to fast to at least the 16hour mark I’ll add 1 tablespoon Kerry gold. I have had some intolerance issues (intolerance meaning my skin issues not GI) with coconut or mct oil so I don’t use that.

I don’t drink anything besides that.

If I’m not fasting I’ll have two eggs scrambled in Kerry gold with spinach. Plus a mini avocado.

Once I get to work I see how long I can hold out. Lunch is canned sockeye salmon or tuna or sardines with spring mix salad and olive oil/abv dressing. Usually 1 tablespoon oil.

My family eats dinner very late which I’ve tried unsuccessfully to change so I usually eat a fat bomb like prav’s fat bomb but with butter instead of coconut oil. I don’t eat peanuts so I substitute unsweetened sunflower butter or macadamia nut butter.

Dinner is broiled fish usually cat fish or wild caught salmon, or ground turkey pattied with a slice of cheddar, chicken with skin baked or broiled, or shredded chicken on top of raw cabbage. A side salad of greens, 1 tablespoon ranch or the olive oil/acv mentioned above. It’s hard to list everything so I’m giving you the typical weekly rotation. This is usually between 8:30 and 9pm then I don’t eat again until the next day…7 am if not fasting 11 or 1pm if trying to hold out.

Now before you mention calories. I’ve tried between 1800, 1600, and 1300 calories. If I plug my weight height into any keto calculator I’m told I’m supposed to eat 1350. Changing calories has not helped.

I really struggle with only eating 80g of protein. That’s what a calculator tells me but my body really wants around 100g per day. I’ve tried both and nothing changes.

I did load on fat my first few weeks but I’m not convinced I should be still doing that. At this point my fat is around 115g per day.

I’m also not thrilled about limiting veggies but I do to keep my carbs at 20. I’ve recently decided the net carb thing doesn’t work for me so I do total carbs at 20.


(Running from stupidity) #45

Well, I did :slight_smile:


(Monique ) #46

And yes I know butter technically breaks the fast but otherwise I’m starving.


(Kirk Wolak) #47

Okay, so the fact that you have issues with coconut oil is interesting.

You may have leaky gut (which leads to skin conditions), for which my dandruff and psoriasis cleared up when I cut out everything but meat. Watch this. It is pretty intense, but educational

the fact that you eat late is BAD. Eating after 6/7pm means 25-50% more insulin response! (Dr. Fung)
this is not good for you, and could lead to the morning hunger.

Also, how strong/dense are your muscles? Could your body be trying to rebuild lost muscle with the protein?
(Why you would need more).

I am okay with having more protein, but include a LOT more fat. It’s the ratio. Forget Calories. Hunger is hormone driven.

Are you FULL when you are done eating? (A lot of women refuse to let themselves get full, they stop at enough)…

First, stop with the fat bomb. Either have it with your meal, or don’t have it. It still counts as a meal. It will trigger insulin. I don’t know the ingredients, but it is not 100% fat => Insulin will come out, fat burning will stop.
(Again, FOR YOU or ME)

NEXT Task. I would like you to measure your Blood Glucose and Ketones just before Dinner. Then, for one meal, I would measure your Glucose every 30 minutes for 2 hrs or more, until it stabilizes. Also, at the 1hr and 2hr mark, I want to know your Ketone levels.

Finally, I want to know you Blood Pressure BEFORE dinner (Measure with your feet flat on the ground). If you measure at the wrist your wrist should be should be slightly above your armpit. Then right after EVERY Glucose reading, take it again.

Just for one meal.

What we are looking for are clues. Eating fewer times is important. NOT eating what causes reactions to Glucose/Insulin or spikes your BP is important. THESE are the things I had to get rid of BEFORE I saw AMAZING results.

You are a bit protein heavy vs fat. And eating too much protein can cause Gluconeogenesis (Glucose Creation from Protein, DIRECTLY). And Trust me, I measured this in myself as well, from doing exactly this test over many days. That is why I like bacon. It is the perfect ratio of fat to protein.

Turkey? Really? This has no place in my diet. Unless it is the drumsticks. too lean of a protein. FULLNESS comes from fat. If you have to, drink a shot or two of olive oil (it has almost no taste). I really think you are not getting enough fat, and therefore, you produce insulin in response to the food, and that drives the hunger. (BTW, the later I eat at night, the hungrier I am in the morning. When I fast at night, I am NEVER hungry in the morning)

Thanks for the details. Hoping this helps you, and those who come later!


(Monique ) #48

Interesting stuff!

Well ground turkey is basically to keep the peace in my house. My husband does not eat beef or pork and it gets tiring for all of us to eat separate meals all the time so when we have burgers I give in and let him make his ground turkey burgers.

Okay on the fat bomb…

Okay on the ketones, glucose, etc.

Now the BP…how are you measuring that? I’m a veterinarian so I’m pretty familiar with these things but you have a way of measuring without a cuff?


(Kirk Wolak) #49

Monique,
The other thing to try is a FAT fast.
Eat ONLY Bacon, Avocado, and Olives/Olive Oil. ONLY those things. Water and BLACK Coffee.
Eat as MUCH as you want.
Eat as OFTEN as you feel HUNGER
Eat until you are full.

Do this for 3-5 days. Then you SHOULD be able to skip breakfast without even trying! This will FAT Adapt you quickly. Google Ketoroade, and you can make/drink that to help you with electrolytes if you need them.

That’s the easiest way. Once you do that. You know what feeling Satiated is for real! LOL.
Also, you should not need breakfast once you adapt. Because your body release glucose in the morning to wake you up! As long as you feel you have to have breakfast, you are not fat adapted. Meaning you need to eat more fat!


(Diane) #50

I feel I wasn’t significantly fat adapted until about 5 months after I started eating ketogenically (and after my first extended fast). And I take that as a sign of severe metabolic derangement pre-Keto. That 5 month mark is the point I stopped keeping track of foods I wanted to eat at a treat (off plan meal).

I am mostly not hungry for breakfast, but I occasionally have days where I am really hungry all day long. Sometimes this goes on for 2 or 3 days in a row. On those days I eat breakfast and try to keep the fat percentage particularly high throughout the day. I don’t see this as a sign that I’m NOT fat adapted or that I kicked myself out of ketosis (I test and I’m definitely in ketosis), I just listen to my body and give it more fat and protein on those days.

Just wanted to note that there are variations between people.


(Kirk Wolak) #51

Diane,
Yeah, EVERYONE is different (I have to eat carnivore, and it takes fasting alternate days to get a decent ketone level for me. the longer I maintain that, the better).

One thing to look for… MSG, Textured Soy, and Soy in general. I have fasted 7 days and usually eat one meal on MWF. That’s it. So, Hunger is a thing of the past. So is getting Hangry…

BUT, if I accidentally consume something with MSG or Soy products… Then I will get RAVENOUSLY hungry.
Also, I had to give up NUTS. Especially Salted. Because they are trigger foods for me. Too easy to consume a POUND of macadamias with just Sea Salt. (I know they are not good for me as eating a cup of them the other day, caused a headache in the morning, it was the ONLY food that was introduced outside of meat/fat).

Anyways, if you keep a decent food diary, you can often find there is a specific food that is triggering this reaction, and that hunger. And MOST of the times, I find it is the food I ENJOY eating the most, that I should not be eating. LOL (Mother Nature has a wicked sense of humor)

Good Luck!


#52

@CaptainKirk How strict is that FAT Fast?Can the avocado be swapped for eggs and the olive oil swapped for butter on a Fat Fast? And can I have a bpc (coconut oil, butter and hwc)


(Joanna Parszyk ) #53

IF has been a miracle for me!
Helps with : emotional aspects of eating, playing with autophagy (firmer skin on face and body, reduction in thickness of post operation scar) and in general dealing better with chronic back pain. Also speeds the ultimate fat adaptation .
It is really shocking how now l’m not afraid of what happens when l’m not prepared and have no pre prepared foods. The sense of freedom and being flexible and able to be spontaneous is so liberating!


(Kirk Wolak) #54

Curious how it is going?

One of the things I realized (and keep bumping against), is that while I LOVE Veggies, they don’t work for me.

I had to go PURE carnivore to get the best results. Eating ANY vegetable can destroy my ketones, raise my glucose, and cause rapid weight gain (4 avocados in one day, gained 4lbs by the next morning). Took 2-3 days for it to drop off. (This was a test, because I noticed a pattern of gaining about 1lb on the days I had avocado with my food).

So, REALIZE everyone has to find THEIR program. If you have dieted a lot, your body may out wait you!
Fasting helps. But so does making sure you are not eating ANYTHING that could be causing weight gain, or inflammation.

I joke that I could lose 20lbs and STOP losing on any diet. When I combined 5 diets, I suddenly lost 100lbs!

  • No Nightshades (Plant Paradox)
  • As few meals as possible (reduce insulin hits)
  • No Vegetables (Carnivory or bust, because I react to 99% of plant products)
  • No Dairy, no Egg Whites (I am allergic, so is my daughter)
  • Intermittent Fasting

Combining those together REALLY made the difference.
Now, let me add, I spent almost 2 months researching “Anti-Inflammation” diets. Because I was on a water pill and 3 allergy meds for my sinus congestion.

The minute I went carnivore… Symptoms improved DAILY!

You might want to try it. Track your symptoms for a few days first.
My neightbor joined me and lost 30+ lbs in 6+ weeks. He is loving it.

We eat bacon every day. I am carnivore, an bacon is my vegetable.


(Kirk Wolak) #55

Sorry for the delay.
The goal is to be boring and repetitive.
Not Whole Eggs. Just the Yolks would be fine (Egg whites are pure protein).
A 12 yolk omelette is overwhelmingly filling for me (with 1lb of bacon, of course)

Dairy is out for me, and MOST people I know. Stick with Oils and coconut oil.
No HWC until you get some good results, then test it for ONE day, measure you Glucose before and after and see if it impacts you. I know people who stalled out their weight loss for 5 days by using a powdered BPC cream! 5 days of not losing weight because they got a little lazy. It took 2 days for their weight loss to continue once they went back to Coconut Oil in their coffee!

ANYTHING can matter for YOUR body. There is NO ONE size for EVERYONE!


(Monique ) #56

Hi!

Well there have been many times I was going to post to say thank you but then I’d get shy. I did what you said and you were absolutely right about the ketosis. I was solidly in after following your recommendations…then I ran out of testing strips and I’ve been too lazy to buy them so I’m just assuming I’m okay in that respect. I feel fat adapted and fasting is coming pretty easy so I think I’m good. However, weight loss still has not happened. EVERYTHING you’re saying right now makes total sense especially since I know I have food hypersensitivity.

I’ve been over on the IDM facebook page and doing group fasts the past two weeks. I still haven’t lost any additional weight but what I’ve realized is exactly what you posted. I’m going to have to do a lot of work cutting things out and trying new routines to find something that works. My body is holding onto this fat for dear life and if I really want to lose it I’ll have to work harder figuring it out…which I don’t really feel like doing. LOL
While I only want to lose 10 lbs, technically for my height I need to lose about 30lbs so it’s not that I don’t have fat to lose. Maybe my hormones are still whacked out from having my third baby but I lost weight easily after my second child.

So basically I’m struggling mentally with the fact that I don’t feel like figuring these things out. I’d much prefer …stick to keto and you’ll lose weight…fast and you’ll lose weight…(insert xyz) and you’ll lose weight. Another thing I’ve been pondering recently (which I know is blasphemy so I keep it to myself) is that anytime I’ve had steady weight loss in my life it’s been on the 6 small meal a day type routine. I know our current wisdom says that’s not possible because of the constant insulin release but that is what I’ve experienced. So I’m trying to make sense of that in the context of Dr. Fung’s teachings and the different ideas floating around.

This whole carnivore idea freaks me out. LMAO! I love vegetables and I do feel they are good for me. Maybe I need to give it a try though. I know for sure that wheat and any kind of processed corn cause me major inflammation but I haven’t really considered cutting vegetables because I haven’t noticed a negative response…Thanks for giving me another frigin’ thing to think about!!! LOL I’m going to look into this carnivore endeavor.

I think you’re very wise! Please keep in touch.


(Kirk Wolak) #57

Well, you missed world carnivore month here in January…
But let me know how you have done since then.
Me email was buggered up and I was not getting the messages, apologies…

Thanks for the kind words… Experience is the best teacher…

I would never recommend eating many small meals, per se. BUT if you are not too metabolically goofed up, and willing to do it with clean meats/fats. I think it would be interesting to try for a few days.

Also, when you say “Not losing weight”… Does that mean you weigh the same Day 1 of the fast, as you do on Day 5?

If that is the case, we need to dig in a bit. Are you drinking Cream on your fasting days? Fat? Bone Broth? (I would do 2 days of WATER FASTING, water and black coffee). That’s it. NOTHING added, no sweetener. Salting the coffee is okay… TRY that and then get back to me. Because that will tell us a lot…

Also, if you have access to a SUANA or (Dry or Wet), I would suggest you hit that and do what you can tolerate, even if you have to go in and out. You are trying to trigger a metabolic change. Getting you to “let go” of calories can sometimes be assisted by becoming very warm… And cooling you off, while fasting, will increase your BMR… Which you want. And it’s ZERO Calories :slight_smile:


(Monique ) #58

Hi!

I will admit that I did the free trial on the paid IDM site and I saw you post there too so I stalked your past posts a bit! :joy::joy::joy:

I’m planning on doing the Meridian labs testing next time they have a groupon. I’d really like to know what other things may be causing an issue besides wheat and corn but it would be nice to have a guide rather than just randomly doing elimination trials.

I stopped looking at the posts on the Obesity Code public facebook page because it was getting very discouraging to read about how Joe or Mary started fasting and the weight just melted off…oh and of course they still stuff themselves with carbs on the feasting days but they’ve still lost 100 lbs in 7days and I can’t lose 10. LOL

I’m completing my 7th week of fasting. I’ve read and re-read the weight loss stall files several times over. Finally…finally…this week I have lost 1.2 lbs and it doesn’t feel like just water weight. My measurements have gone up and down in the 7 weeks and they are now down 0.5 inch to 1 inch (depending on the body part) from when I started. I feel like some magic is starting. It took me quite a while to keep from overfeasting on my eating days. It also took some serious soul searching to mentally accept that I just can’t eat things others can get away with without feeling like total s@#$.
I feel solidly on track going forward. I’m still struggling with eating times. I don’t want to eat midday it’s just not my thing so I have to force the eating windows. I’d much rather break my fast at breakfast, not eat again until dinner, and then start the next fast or whatever my plan is for the next time period. I’ve been having discussions with myself about whether I need to follow this stuff to a T or make it fit my lifestyle even if the results are much slower (the latter makes me happier).

Anyway, I’m a work in progress…


(Running from stupidity) #59

There’s a warning somewhere in there, I just can’t see exactly what it is…

:slight_smile:


(Monique ) #60

Hahahahahaha!!! You are so right!! When I joined I wasn’t so keen on spending a monthly fee when I wasn’t even sure I could fast never mind wanting to. Now I stay in it for the moderator led fasts because I really like some of the moderators.