Higher glucose over previous years

(Joey) #79

A little redundancy never hurts.

(SunnyNC) #80

Thanks for the detailed response. For the sake of debate, I do have to disagree on some things :slight_smile: Our ancestors barely lived past youth. I am pretty sure they were not after good looks and longivity. They probably were happy to be alive till the son grew up to become the family head. I used to get irritated when anti meat folks would make similar arguments in their youtube comments but eh, maybe there is some truth and some fallacy on both sides.
In tropical regions I bet they had access to various seasonal carbs majority of the time even before agriculture. That is exactly why human body has learnt to deal with carbs efficiency and tightly regular glucose levels. Is there absolute need for carb all the time? Probably not. Is there an absolute need to avoid it as much as we can and create a stress on the system(strict keto)? I thought answer was Yes now I am starting to think maybe not, based on my own personal experience. Maybe my tropical Asian side of genetics are not happy cutting out all the carbs. :slight_smile:

I can also argue for a tribe to survive, it’s better to have all young and strong members, so evolution had to favor killing off the older slower ones therefore their lifestyle and diet was not optimized for longivity but rather for survival. But I WON’T as there is NO evidence and there will not be a concrete evidence unless you can time travel. So I find no interest in using paleolithic argument for everything as a catch all. I think there are places where evolution can be used to learn. But longivity and what diet is optimal for CURRENT societies lifestyle is not one of them. If I remember, you work early shift at WM? ( I read your impressive and detailed food/CGM log and your meals started like 4 /5 am or so, pardon me if I have mixed up). I work regular time and traffic was stressing me out, lucky you no traffic early morning before sunrise. Anyway point is our ansestors lived nothing like today. Evolution is happening constantly. So why keep using that primitive argument to justify things that is otherwise not proven via scientific research as applicable to current society. There are researches on birds that as show measurable evolutionary changes within a couple of generations. Plants too. Maybe the humans that can’t eat too many carbs started getting down regulated during the 1000s of years grains, starches and legumes are being cultivated? We only know what the scientist have presented as a theory of events.

The other thing you mentioned- I have always had a very healthy diet growing up and definitely nowhere close to SAD. So I am not concerned about having ”damaged metabolism”, on the contrary I’am concerned that I might now be damaging it now as evident from increasing A1C after going Keto. Personally, all my tests were fine before keto, doctors were always saying how everything is great and to continue what I am doing. I never had any disease nor allergies that warranted any dietary changes. Started keto on my own as I was trying to be the best I possibly can. After keto, everything is still good except increasing A1C and FBG. I have written several posts why this is a concern.
I am happy for you if you are one of people that have lowered their A1C or reversed any past damages by doing keto. Not sure if you were diabetic and Keto helped reverse it so you are saying it takes years to reverse damage? I don’t have the need to reverse anything (yet!) Just trying to optimize my diet and lifestyle the best I can when I am still ahead, young and healthy. Prevention vs cure. It’s pretty clear there is no answer yet to the concerns posted by some. Until then someone of us “unlucky” “already healthy and active” folks need to modify keto and find something that further improves their health. I am hoping that will be CKD for me. Only time will tell.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #81

That is not actually true. The average age of death was low, because of the prevalence of infections, and no antibiotics to treat them with (remember that penicillin was not discovered until the 1940’s). Infant mortality was high, and it was not uncommon for children to die of diseases that are easily treatable today.

But those of our ancestors who survived their childhood diseases, and also managed to escape serious injury as adults, often lived to quite advanced ages. The Plains tribes of North America, for example, were well-known for the high percentage of their people who lived to be over a hundred—at least, until they adopted the white man’s diet.

So remember, averages can be tricky to deal with. As someone points out in another thread, on average, each human being possesses one ovary and one testicle.

(SunnyNC) #84

“My ovary gave up long ago!” - Lol @amwassil
As for the longivity of paleolithic people I have seen articles on both sides. Despite allowing for diseases or being a prey, I have seen argument that their life span was nothing close to current even if they survived diseases or being killed. Sorry i incorrectly said “youth” I really meant to say young (relative term. but I was thinking below 45-50 as young!) … @amwassil, my apologies i was editing my comment but you guys got to it and replied before I submitted it. Had to step away for my salad and steak, :joy:. (Plus a bit of lentils, cycling and doing slowcarb this week)

(Robin) #85

I wish the debate over our ancestors would die from neglect.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #86

Why? We are who we are because of who we were. Watch Eades’ video.

(Robin) #88

I’m cruising along on auto pilot carnivore. I don’t want to stop and get the map out of the glove compartment and see how I got here and where I am heading. (Plus, I can never get it re-folded)

I don’t read the research or watch the vids. Never did. (I realize that the advice and support I get here frequently come from the folks who do.) But there are some topics like our ancestors lifespan and diet and hairstyles that simply create a back and forth debate with no end.

You asked. That’s my why.
Just me speaking from my perspective Michael, so don’t shoot.

#90

hate to say it but it is every darn hormone, insulin check, every blood glucose meter, every metabolic discussion and food that goes into our mouths and more…you can’t even pretend to get real answers with no back and forth debate can ya when we are dealing with more ‘real sciency type info’? Nutrition, body chemistry and food nutrients are put to the ultimate test thru social media ‘experts’ and articles and micro managing of what is ‘perfect for oh so US’ yet?

being on a forum sparks this debate point blank…that is what this venue is here for truly on posting vids and articles and links and more to ‘help others’ thru that info?

but you said one thing I love in that at some point, we do we only thru all we read and fought against and was useless and we drop the BS of it all and JUST DO US and if we are brainy enough to stop listening to tons out there for what that tons of noise is all about, we find us in the mix, and we are actually so tiny in that mix but so powerful it is frigtening but yet again, we deminish ourselves to those experts ya know.

I am in a stage of ‘let it go’ and believe me I never felt better doing just that! But I also learned a ton thru vids and articles and more, learn what sets with you, discard the rest that doesn’t work for you and at that point, I find me kinda like you. I won’t waste time anymore on usless info I don’t deem fit to encompass my research I learned going forward kinda thing.

I don’t know if I said that right HAHA but just an observation on how I am changing also.

no shooting, I get ya on it R! It becomes useless background noise when we hit a certain level of our lives, well for me it happened like that.

(Robin) #91

I’m totally cool with different opinions, but after you have your say, let it go, man! :smirk: Thanks for your input, insightful as always.

I have never been into videos. Or reading online. I am a book learner. This forum is my exception.
And my obsession.

#92

That’s easy, I grind some roasted pork (or any other meat) and voila. I actually use that as flour sometimes. But carni flour can be frustrating, it’s good if one considers cooking a hobby and not so successful experiments don’t discourage them. The food is still pretty much edible as what could go wrong with eggs and meat? :wink: Unless we turn it into charcoal but even I don’t do that anymore (I didn’t mature THAT much but I don’t have so temperamental things in my kitchen. I love electric stuff where I even can set the time).
Too bad I would like egg flour and that’s more work to make (I don’t buy egg powder, I only accept eggs from - as far as I can tell - properly kept local chicken)… But it’s doable. I will make firm sponge cakes one day (100% eggs, that’s my thing).

(IIFYM) Keto is very indulgent but actually, my carnivore-ish seem to be too. And not only because of the -ish. If I can’t make something using eggs and meat and maybe dairy, I probably can live without the stuff (I may not want to but that’s a whim, luxury, not a real need and it’s important, I can do without those things short term).
Well okay I needed time to reach that point… But adding a bunch of other stuff usually made things more boring (it was a shock right before carnivore, I took away things and my food got more interesting). Adding a few well chosen tiny extras does good though, that’s why I prefer carnivore-ish.

#93

@amwassil, I’m only tagging you, because you’ve tagged me. I won’t respond to personal attacks that are clearly beneath me and you.

Now, about keto being the way our ancestors ate, or whatever, I find it completely irrelevant. First, one will never be able to prove the stuff eaten then is like the stuff eaten now. The level if physical activity, etc. A living animal is a complex thing.

Second: I have a real problem. And some other people too. I’m trying to solve my problem. You may think it isn’t a problem. But nobody proved it isn’t a problem for my personal health, or even for a population health nowadays, long term. The problem: high BG.

To know anyone, or everyone ate keto in the past, or even now, doesn’t help me solve my problem.

#94

yea I sure get that and with so many links and vids put on this forum, I kinda thought, darn she must go batty when she sees all the posted info links HA HA

let it go! I sure love those thoughts also!!

(Robin) #95

GOOD POINTS! Today is today. Your body is your body is your body. (Didn’t mean to say that 3 times, but it works, lol.)

(Judy Thompson) #96

In glucogenesis, you liver converts protein to carbs whenever it judges that you’ve had enough protein. So in fact eating 0 carbs is almost a guarantee of glucogenesis unless you’re aiming for the recommended 70-80% dietary fat. Can’t trust the body, it’ll play tricks on ya!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #97

It used to be thought that gluconeogenesis was completely supply-driven; i.e., the more protein we ate, the more glucose our livers produced. Now we know that there are other factors besides glucagon and insulin that regulate blood sugar levels, and gluconeogenesis appears to be more demand-driven than supply-driven.

But yes, in the absence of dietary carbohydrate, the liver makes the teaspoon or so of glucose that the body needs to have circulating in the bloodstream. It also stores a certain amount of glycogen to share with the skeletal muscles at need. (Liver glycogen can be shared, whereas muscle glycogen is trapped in the muscle cells that formed it.)

(Ethan) #98

That’s debatable. I’ve read and heard that gluconeogenesis is demand driven, not supply driven. That said, I don’t know what happens with the excess protein. Even so, I eat a high-fat diet anyway.

(Judy Thompson) #99

@PaulL @EZB It does seem like research is always blowing old concepts out of the water. Back in nursing school in the 80s studying nutrition, I remember being pretty upset that the best laid plans for macros would be reorganized by the body as it saw fit. Is it supply or demand driven? Who knows? Your metabolism has a mind of its own and when it decides you’ve had enough protein or not enough carbs, it up and converts them. The only safe macro is fat. Dr. Thomas Cowan said excess fat is converted to water and excreted through the kidneys. So eat your water on the edge of a big ole ribeye :blush:

(Edith) #100

@Corals, first I want to say, I would have never guessed English isn’t your first language. Wow!

Second, I think your observations about needing to add some carbs back into your diet are perfectly valid. If eating very low carb was stressing your body, that could cause increased cortisol, which can increase your blood sugar. I did find it interesting that decreasing your exercise also decreased your blood sugar. Maybe you were over training and that was also stressing your body?

I have no evidence to back up the following thoughts, but just some books I’ve read and podcasts I’ve listened to recently got me thinking. For people who started keto just to lose a few pounds, but weren’t metabolically damaged, maybe long term keto is not necessary or even appropriate if they stick to clean eating post keto. I do believe keto heals. For some people, maybe their bodies are too damaged to leave keto, but maybe for others, the damage gets repaired enough that they don’t need to stay in ketosis or at least stay in ketosis all the time.

Keto is like taking the “red pill” in The Matrix. It totally opened my eyes to the reality of what I once thought was healthy food. I think is may be a natural dietary evolution to go from strict keto to say adding more fruits, vegetables, and tubers after a time, well for some people anyway.

(Robin) #101

Oooh, interesting concept. Makes sense…

#102