Higher glucose over previous years

(Ethan) #1

I am trying to understand my higher blood glucose these days. I’ve been keto for 7 of the last 9 years and carnivore for 3 years now. Yes, occasionally, I have deviated from pure zero carb/carnivore for a rebel ice cream treat, but it is rare. My diet is pretty solid carnivore: eggs, meats (mostly beef, some lamb, some chicken), butter. Over the last year, I have had much higher glucose and experienced a 20-pound weight gain (though it was mostly at once and maintained weight for the whole year from them on). My glucose is usually above 100 still. A1c has been in the 5.8 range. I am in ketosis though. Despite the 121 sugar reading just now, I had a 1.0 ketone reading and haven’t eaten in 4 hours. In previous years, I was pretty solid at 5.0 to 5.2 A1C

I do have a lot of stress. I am not doing the cardio workouts I used to–so that is one change over this time. I haven’t had covid to mess anything up. Can I really attribute all this higher glucose levels and weight gains to stress and not doing cardio? That seems to really go against the wisdom that a zero-carb diet is generally sufficient to maintain normalcy. Yes, I am diabetic, but what is going on here?

#2

I’m so sorry you’re seeing high-ish BG in spite of trying to do all the right things!

I’ve been trying to get info into BG while on keto for sometime and I think nobody knows the answer to why it can climb back up. The Virta people, for instance, didn’t publish their results about subjects after 3 years of keto. Nor 4. Why, I wonder. Perhaps it didn’t workout as it was supposed to. It seemed to work up to 2 years, then they went quiet on the sharing results.

With you, you could manage good outcome for so many years. That’s fantastic! I hope what you’re going through is just a bleep.

I think we’ve all read about our metabolism slowing down when we diet, like the body is fighting against weightloss. Like what happen to the Biggest Loser participants.

I suggested that perhaps there’s the same type of mechanism about BG: your body finds a way to jeopardize your efforts and go back to where it wants to be, even when it isn’t a healthy place. If I’m right, and I hope I’m not, controlling BG by drastically decreasing carbs will work until it won’t. Perhaps the body does the same as the slowing metabolism thing, but something else, like putting glucose in your blood no matter what. Fighting against “normal” BG.

Perhaps for some reason it decides your BG should be 140. Then, you cut carbs and lower it. It works at first, like CICO diets do. But eventually, as in a fighting-BG-“starvarion” kind of reflex, your body finds a way to get you back up to the 140, no matter what you do.

Also, I’ve read insulin resistance could be caused by fat. I’ve read a paper recently where it is discussed that scientists don’t know exactly why we become insulin resistant. It could be different processes for different people, too. You’ve said you’ve put on some weight. Could it be related? Who knows? If it is, perhaps losing the weight could bring back the good BG.

(FRANK) #3

I’ve experienced the same thing. LC/Keto for several years. Lost weight early on, then back to where I started. All through the process, BG remained high overall. Sure, at times in the late afternoon it will dip to the low 90’s. But in the morning before any food or drink always above 115.
Tried pretty much everything including IF. Guess some of us are just hard cases.

(Ethan) #4

I am not seeing 90s at all. Mornings are 130-140.

(Bob M) #5

Are you type 1 or type 2 diabetic?

130-140 is high for morning blood sugar.

As for stress, I think that could cause higher blood sugar. Whether as high as yours or not, I don’t know. I’d say get a cortisol test, but that might not tell you much if you didn’t have one beforehand.

(Bob M) #6

By the way, one thing you could try is eating animal fat first, then protein. This is what Amber O’Hearn recommends for some people, and it seems to work for many. (I can’t figure out a fat to eat to test this; suet upsets my stomach; I don’t like pork fat; and the thought of eating just butter isn’t appetizing.)

(Ethan) #7

Type 2

#8

@EZB @Corals These are interesting observations. Are either of you considering experimenting with adding a controlled amount of high fiber, low glycemic index carbs to see if it makes a difference?

I’ve also felt confused and disappointed that my initial, amazing response to a ketogenic diet started to fade in many respects after about 12 months. @Corals hypothesis about some sort of individual homeostasis reminded me to continue going through the studies funded by Gary Taubes NuSci project. There was one (below) which especially caught my interest, because I believe many of my health issues are connected to my messed up microbiome. Based on the study below, it sounds like it is not easy to establish lasting change to your microbiome profile.

I will post a separate thread on the studies that came out of Gary Taubes Nutrition Science Initiative. At first glance, they don’t seem as convincing as everyone hoped. Maybe there were study design issues… Hoping to hear others’ thoughts in a separate thread once I read the articles on his website.

(Ethan) #9

Next week, I will go back to alternate-day fasting to see if that makes a difference.

#10

@Wendy198, I eat high fiber and it doesn’t help my particular situation. I’m not claiming it couldn’t help someone else, of course. In general, my diet is very clean. No coffee, no processed stuff, except for a tiny amount of 86% choc sometimes.

(Joey) #11

I’ll just throw a thought into the mix that might play a role in producing seemingly elevated blood glucose among longer-term low-carb eaters…

Consider: gluconeogensis - which is the natural process through which our bodies can convert non-carbohydrate nutrients into glucose.

By way of n=1 example, even well after the “dawn effect” my serum glucose is often around 100 or slightly higher. But this glucose is clearly not coming (directly) from what I eat. On the contrary.

My glucose is often elevated even after not having eaten anything for 18 hrs. FWIW, my NMR Lipid panel indicates I am highly insulin sensitive. Moreover, I am not a diabetic. I eat minimal carbs (except for what’s in my green leafy veggies), no sugar, starches, etc. Just loads of fat with appropriate protein.

In short: it seems pretty clear to me that, eating diligently restricted-carb for 2+ years, my “natural” glucose level is perfectly healthy - producing excellent energy, stamina, and physical/mental endurance. Although it would be deemed somewhat “elevated” by standards typically applied to those eating SAD.

I’ll propose that it might be helpful for those longer-term keto eaters who are disappointed with “moderately” elevated glucose levels to reflect on their own n=1 dietary context.

Are you really eating carbs while telling yourself you’re not? Or are you truly restricting your carb intake?

If it’s the latter, yet you still have higher glucose than you’d like to see, could it be that your body is producing this glucose - derived through gluconeogenesis from the perfectly healthy nutrients you’re digesting? … And if so, wouldn’t that likely be because that’s what your metabolism needs to function properly?

Actually, when I’ve seen those “elevated” glucose levels - knowing what I’m actually eating - I’ve marveled at the miracle of my metabolism.

Food for thought. :vulcan_salute:

(Ethan) #12

I am eating basically 0 carbs, so it isn’t that

(Joey) #13

I sense you may have missed my point regarding gluconeogenesis?

Since you eat no carbs yet have elevated serum glucose, perhaps it is precisely that.

Put differently, where else might the glucose be coming from?

(Ethan) #14

I was referring to the part where you asked about whether I might be eating more carbs than I think.

Clearly, my body is making the glucose. just it was sudden. I am in deep ketosis with higher blood sugars. That’s weird

(Joey) #15

@EZB Sorry for confusion on my part. Yes, your body is probably healing well without the carb assault. Give yourself time and patience and stay the course. The weight will take care of itself over time if you take the best care of your health that you can.

Cheers!

(Ethan) #17

You do realize I’ve been doing this 9 years, right? This is a sudden change in a weird direction.

(Joey) #18

@EZB No doubt I could learn a lot from your 9 years of personal experience with keto. Again, sorry if my responses to your post (in which you’d asked for thoughts on your rising glucose) remain off the mark.

Although your concern seems primarily around serum glucose, let’s put that aside for the moment…

If I experienced a significant and otherwise unexplained weight gain (i.e., not from changes in eating and exercise) this would lead me to suspect thyroid involvement.

Perhaps it’s time to lay this situation out with your internist/physician and see if some thyroid bloodwork might shed light on what’s going on internally since it’s not diet-related? :vulcan_salute:

(p.s. - I would be surprised if a lack of cardio exercise had much to do with either weight gain or failure to lose it. From the research I’ve read, exercise is a marvelous boost to one’s overall health in many ways … but practically speaking, weight loss is not one of them.)

(Ethan) #19

Thyroid panels run every 6 months and all normal. Here is my last 1.5 years in what makes me think it’s stress:

Nov 2020: weight 204. I injure my shoulder and stop weight lifting to heal it.

Dec 2020: weight 207. My mom gets sick with Covid. We are on calls with the doctors several times a day. My dad gets Covid also. We take care of my Dad remotely by dropping him off food while my mother deteriorates in the hospital and dies on the 31st. We are still isolated as a family.

Jan 2021: weight 210. I make all the arrangements for my mother, and we bury her on the 2nd. We decide my dad will move in with me. We already have my father-in-law, my wife, an infant, and a 9-year-old son, so we plan to add onto the house. We begin cleaning out my father’s house. He was living in very poor conditions for a while apparently. My mother wasn’t well enough for a long time to really clean, and nothing had been done since she got sick.

Feb 2021: weight 213. my shoulder is still injured, but I start physical therapy remotely We struggle to get vaccinations despite numerous health conditions. We clear my father’s house more a bit every weekend. The house had so much stuff in it—hoarding tendencies. We throw most of it out. My mother’s dogs find a new and good home. My father he officially moves in with us.

March 2021: weight 215. My father in law suffers an aortic rupture at home. His life is saved because of a complication (fusing of the artery with a vein) that makes his full recovery impossible. We have huge fights with my wife’s family over misconceptions about what happened to their father. Words come out that scare my father about continuing to live with us. We start getting vaccinated as a family. We fix my father’s house now that it is clear and put it up for sale.

April-June 2021: weight 218. We aren’t good with my wife’s family fully. We do family counseling, but they all quit. My father-in-law recovers to be functional, but his complication means he can’t ever be fully treated. We begin plans on the home addition. The architect creates the plans, and we hire a builder. I get two surgeries in June: lasik at the beginning of the month and a vasectomy at the end.

July-August 2021: weight 218. I learn that doctors lie about vasectomies. The recovery is often not simple. I’m in a lot of pain, but not in a “pain” way—very odd and unique feeling. I have dry eye from lasik and am up all night putting in drops always. Construction starts, but is very slow. There are screw ups, and our house floods twice—luckily nothing is lost.

September-December 2021: weight 222. My eyes are a bit better. Vasectomy only has lingering periods of aching. My son is pulled from school to be homeschooled because of his immune issues until vaccinated. We take care of the baby without any help. I have the kids in the morning. My wife has them in the evening. Somehow we also work full time each. My oldest son goes back to school in the middle of December after being vaccinated. My shoulder has healed 90% now. I start light weight lifting. I have an aortic aneurysm also, so I don’t ever lift heavy weights anyway. With my son vaccinated we mix households with my sister’s family and my dad’s friends indoors for the first time in 19 months. My youngest son shows abnormal immune blood work, but it isn’t indicative yet of anything except future asthma. Construction is delayed months off plan due to poor planning and lack of labor. Every week, the work that needs to be done just extends another week.

January 2022: weight 224. I begin cardio workouts also 3 times a week now and restart alternate-day eating. Construction is still ongoing. The main worker who was going to do finishing and then internal renovations goes to Venezuela for 3 weeks, returns, and has been sick since. The manager’s family member gets Covid, and we have 1 person doing the finishing for pretty much the whole time… internal work delayed starting even though the schedule says it would be done now. Likely we won’t be done until April!

With all these major life-altering events, injuries, and surgeries, and then living in a construction zone out of boxes while caring for two children who both were full-time at home (educating one fully) and taking care of two distinct seniors……it’s just too much to stay healthy

(Joey) #20

@EZB I just “:heart:”'ed your latest post, not to “like” it but to express some heartfelt empathy.

Stress? yikes - I’m feeling some of it just reading about what you and your family have been going through.

Yeah, chronically elevated cortisol levels are known to throw a metabolism a serious curve ball.

Keep taking good care of yourself - along with all the others in your life - and give yourself some time to work through. Exercise may not be an ideal weight loss regimen, but it’s very healthy on other fronts and is known to be a highly constructive way of dealing with stress.

Best wishes for better times!

(Linda ) #21

Read up on some of Dr Cywes later videos he suggests cycling in fat days and lean days what you describe is exactly what he is starting to see in his veteran carnivores…raised blood glucose, a1c climbing… he thinks it’s because we tend to stay higher fat longer than we should so eating leaner a couple of days then a couple days fattier meats has turned it around for his patients…