Higher carbs = weight loss?


(Murphy Kismet) #1

I’ve looked but found nothing to answer this question.

Info: Started eating keto early January 2019. I had about 30lbs to lose. I’m halfway there.
(GW: 115 - CW:128 - SW: 145 — I’ve been over 200lb mark but couldn’t drop under 145lb eating paleo without first lowering my carbs MORE)

Now, this particular incident has happened at least two times that I’ve been able to count carbs.
First time was on St Paddy’s Day when I had a whiskey with ginger ale (thought it was a flavourd Jameson, but no…) so I said f-it and had two savana dry ciders (my favourite drink, 14g carb/ea, and the only alcohol that doesn’t give me a hangover). Next day, I stepped on the scale expecting to see an increase of a few pounds due to the carbs the night before. I had DROPPED 3lbs!

The second time happened this past weekend. We had a get-together at which hubby and I served a keto-ish supper to our friends (not all keto, but I was careful, no potatoes!). HOWEVER, after supper, all best were off. I dove head first into FIVE savanna dry ciders (14g carb each, total 70g carbs). This time I “knew” it wouldn’t work , too many carbs, right? Nope! Another 3 lbs gone. I should note that the drinking was sorta planned, because there was also Cards Against Humanity and, um, hel-LO, that game requires a certain amount of inebriation lol.

So my question: if I have “only” 15 lbs to go, should I still keep my net carbs under 20g/day? Or am I being “told” that I need to up my carb intake in order to facilitate further weight loss?
My scale says:
BW: 55.6% (water?)
BMI: 21.4
BF: 30.7lbs (24%)
Bone: 5.8%

When I first started keto, I didn’t understand the macros, so I was shovelling the fat in willy-nilly, moderating protein, and lowering carbs dramatically. Weight loss was slooooow. And then…it wasn’t. :thinking: So now I’m wondering: am I at a point in my weight loss when I need to up the carbs a bit?
Also, since last week I’ve started upping my protein (now that I undertand gluconeogenesis), and lowered my fat intake…
Here is a screencap of what I’ve set my macros to:
macros


#2

3 lbs is a normal daily fluctuation.

But no, you aren’t going to instantly gain weight necessarily from one night of extra carbs once in a while.


(less is more, more or less) #3

We need to carefully qualify that statement, especially for someone new to low-carb eating. 70 grams of carbs in a single meal isn’t a trivial matter on a low-carb diet.


#4

I wasn’t claiming it can’t have any negative effects, only that it won’t necessarily cause instant weight gain, which was the topic here.

If you were epileptic, it could be a very serious matter, for instance.


#5

Diet Doctor is skirting around admitting that study is pretty much useless (nine test subjects, really? why even bother bringing it up?). If there’s anything to glean from it, it raises the question of whether or not it’s better to have a more frequent Carb Day, to keep up the body’s tolerance, or risk potentially worse effects by succumbing to a Carb binge after going a year without carbs.


(less is more, more or less) #6

Um, no. Just no.

Carb cycling may work with some people, but advocating this as standard advice with someone new to low-carb eating just increases the complexity and increase the likelihood of discouragement, of adopting a new way of eating.

Diet Doctor has additional information on why not to cheat. https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/cheat I could hunt down more third-party reference but feel very little need to do so at the moment.


#7

I’m not advocating anything, but I think telling newbies “no cheat days” (and sighting a study that is pretty much useless) is going to set them up for failure. Eventually, nine times out of ten, someone will have a Carb Day, whether it’s for celebratory reasons or just because they wanted one. Pretending otherwise doesn’t help them with learning how to handle that.


(less is more, more or less) #8

I’m re-reading the thread, and I have misinterpreted the context. My bad. Not everyone responds to a low-carb diet in the same way, so maybe @Kismet is on to something? Not good general advise, but n=1.


(less is more, more or less) #9

You’re not advocating for anything, except for cheat days. Oye. Terrible advice.


#10

:roll_eyes:


#11

No one advocated for cheat days, I think you are reading too much into our responses here.

OP is looking for some guidance in understanding a particular phenomena that happened to them, where they had extra carbs and ended up loosing weight when they expected to gain weight, and this happened twice. We are commenting on why that may be, and no one other than OP suggested anyone should take cheat days (who was asking whether they should for themself given the data and phenomena at hand).


(Murphy Kismet) #12

Thank you.
I had anticipated a gain, or even just break even, but a loss? I was flummoxed, to say the least. (We won’t talk about the giddy dancing, m’k? :wink:)


#13

I have discovered that I have a real problem with using carb up days responsibly due to sugar addiction (when not restricting the type of carb). I do believe that they can be helpful for the reason you stated and actually had good weight loss experiences trying it out initially - just had a very hard time ending my carb up days, which usually turned into multiple days in a row. However, I have no such problems when I have occasional carb up days with non-refined carbs (I think of it as having a more paleo-style day) such as root vegetables, but no grains.

Having said that, I still plan to eat whatever I want once or twice a year and will plan strategies far ahead to make sure I get right back on track.


(Karim Wassef) #14

Small duration changes in weight are usually a function of water and food flux through you. Real body fat loss takes much longer.

If you look at the physiology of what happens when you eat carbs and then go back, you body start burning dietary carbs (glucose).

When you stop, it continues burning glucose for a period of time and as that drops, your liver start converting tissue into glucose (gluconeogenesis). The initial effect comes from protein = lean mass. It eventually switched to fat to do that, then back to using fatty acids, then back to ketones.

But for the period following the glucose excursion and return to Keto, your body will break down lean mass and you will see weight loss but it’s not the good kind.

This is temporary and the body recovers (depends on the duration of the excursion) but it’s not a good thing.

The exception is athletes who can deplete the intake of glucose so fast that it doesn’t register as an adaptive event… and they keep Keto on.


(Murphy Kismet) #15

Every night, after supper, I start craving sweets. Pavlovian much?
I, too, have a serious sugar addiction. I need to avoid it like the plague, or I’ll give in, again.

Both times, when I carbed up, the next day I steadfastly fasted (punny? :smiley:) just to try and do a mini system reset so to speak, if that works. Oh, and guzzle electrolyte water like crazy.

I’m hoping once I get down to my Ideal Weight, I’ll be able to control those cravings, and not ramp up my weight…again.


(Allie) #16

Recently I’ve been experimenting with high carb days, well I’ve had three days over the last five or six weeks where I’ve decided to eat chips (fries for our American friends) and a big portion too. Haven’t even checked the carb content as I know it will be obscenely high.
As you’d expect, the morning after I have gained a couple of pounds every time, but then the morning after that, I have dropped down to at least two pounds below where I was before having the crazy level of carbs, in fact yesterday I had dropped down almost 5lbs - bear in mind I’m hovering around 119 - 123lbs these days so a couple of pounds is a noticeable change, the 5lbs seemed insane.
It makes no sense to me and I don’t encourage anyone to try it, but I’ve been keto almost four years (maybe five, can’t actually think right now) so have enough flexibility to be able to do this.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #17

My advice: yes, keep your net carbs sub-20; and, no, you do not need to ‘up’ your carbs. Unless you’re a medical curiosity/enigma, in which case please offer yourself to medical science for further study, increasing carbs won’t work. Daily ups/downs are not very important. As mentioned by other posters short term changes are most likely just water. The important thing is the long term trend. Eating more carbs is not a good idea.


(Karim Wassef) #18

Carbs are literally unnecessary. Protein is necessary and fat is necessary.

Carbs cause long term disease and that impacts longevity. It’s not about weight. It’s about health.

We use lots of substances that are enjoyable but serve no benefit, even in “moderation”… alcohol, carbs, tobacco, etc… it’s up to each individual to decide their tolerance for fun vs damage.

Athletes can use carbs to impact their performance, but they consume them aggressively in their muscles… if you’re not an athlete, then it’s a recreational drug

as adults, we get to make those choices.


(Carl Keller) #19

Only your body knows the answer. I believe that you need to convince your body that famine is not a threat so that it will willingly give up fat in a healthy manner. As witness to how others here have attacked the last 10-15 pounds of fat as well as my own experience, I’ve learned that it might mean fewer carbs for some people and it might mean periodic feasting and/or fasting for others. I fall into the latter category and it took me about five weeks to lose the last 10.

I say keep doing whatever seems to be working. If it stops working, try something else or even mix it up. Just don’t starve yourself and all should be well.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #20

Personally, I prefer the term “relapse days.”

There is so much energy around the idea of being able to eat more carbohydrate!!! that it reminds me very strongly of newly sober alcoholics dreaming of the day when they will be able to drink moderately again. The old-timers generally laugh and say something along the lines of, “Well, you just let us know how that works for ya, kid!”