High fibre diet study.... Thoughts?

(Garry (Canada)) #1

I’m curious how this report is received by unbiased individuals here.
Any credibility to this?

Article (with study linked) about High Fibre
10 days in & 11lb lighter but am I in ketosis?
Fibre - is it the high carb diet's last straw? Keto bashing in the mainstream. "There goes the keto diet!", predicted the celebrity doctor
#2

The Okinawan diet (/Japan where a lot of people lived over 100 years of age) was very high in carbs, high quality of course, a lot of sweat potato…

So I don’t doubt it is possible.

I think the keto diet is one loophole in the system whereby we can escape early death by processed food. But I don’t believe it’s the only loophole (I say that not based on any proof, it’s just my guess).

Dr Robert Lustig (The Bitter Truth About Sugar), pointed out fibre as a factor a long time ago. Removal of fibre is necessary in processed food to get shelf life and you can freeze it hence transport it. But when you eat such food it goes through the body too quickly and the insulin spikes are very high, too high. With fibre in tact you body has time to deal with the food in a safer manner.

As for grains, that really means wheat most of the time, they’ve used mutagenises to, well, mutilate it. The difference between modern “wheat” and that of only 60 years ago is greater than the difference between monkeys and humans. I have serious doubts about it. Yet, even it, with fibre in tact would help moderate insulin levels (if the subject can tolerate it without inflammation, alergies, a leaky gut and other perils).

Lustig also says what do the Okinawan (High Carb) , Low-Carb, Paleo and whatever other diet which works have in common? They ALL remove sugar, especially toxic fructose.

(bulkbiker) #3

Don’t forget the pork they used to eat too?

(Adam Kirby) #4

I’m guessing it was (stop me if you’ve heard this one before) an epidemiological study based on food frequency questionnaires, that found a correlation between fiber intake and mortality.

IOW, nothing that actually shows causal mechanisms.

(Carl Keller) #5

Reducing the characteristics in metabolic syndrome is the best way to reduce risk of heart disease and eating ketogenically can reduce all of these factors. Fiber may or may not play a big part in the ketogenic diet since we are eating whole foods and very little processed garbage… so why the need to keep our digestive systems constantly scrubbed? I would certainly understand this need if we are eating typical western diet foods.

** The metabolic syndrome , also called insulin resistance syndrome or syndrome X, is not a disease but a group of characteristics . These characteristics include obesity, high blood pressure, elevated blood sugar levels, and high triglycerides (fat-like substances in the blood).**

(Matthew) #6

I just finished reading about this study on the BBC news. It’s the second major story shown on BBC world news. They called it 'The Lifesaving Food 90% aren’t eating enough of’ .
Firstly, why does this article have a “click-bait” title and tagline? I thought this was supposed to be a reputable source of news…

What surprised me were the types of foods with Fibre in it that they promoted. They were mainly refined carbs including cereals. I don’t think there was mention of a leafy green vegetable. But it is also the quantity of these types of foods which they stipulate you should be eating.
In addition, their interpretation of the results in the study appears skewed and sensationalized. Take these examples:

It suggests if you shifted 1,000 people from a low fibre diet (less than 15g) to a high-fibre one (25-29g), then it would prevent 13 deaths and six cases of heart disease.
Well, after analysing 185 studies and 58 clinical trials, the results are in and have been published in the Lancet medical journal.

“The evidence is now overwhelming and this is a game-changer that people have to start doing something about it,” one of the researchers, Prof John Cummings, tells BBC News."

The question remains what else were they eating? I would maintain that people who consumed more fibre in their diet probably also ate less junk food, smoked less, drank less alcohol and ate more vegetables. Why is fibre from refined carb meals promoted as a result of this study? And it would prevent 13 deaths from a 1000? How can something so small demonstrate anything remotely conclusive that high-fibre diets can avoid ‘deaths’?
Something doesn’t stack up at all.

Warbutons, Kellogg’s and Nestle must be suitably pleased with this article.

I think I’ll take Dr. Paul Mason’s advice over this BBC news article - ‘From fibre to the microbiome: low carb gut health’

Today's click-bait BBC article 'Could carbs help us live longer'?
#7

Agreed it may or may not play a big part. I suspect for some it does play a big part. It depends on how one obtains their carbs. 15grams worth of carbs and associated fibre from steamed broccoli and cauliflower or 15g from a jar of processing peanut gunk with a three hundred year shelf life. I’m going with the first option.

I’m interested in fibre because it facilitates growth of helpful gut bacteria, carries micronutriants, helps the plumbing work better. People say they “feel more full” after eating.

I have, however, read posts on this forum where anything but vegetables are consumed, very low fibre. I dare say, sadly, it’s their loss.

(Garry (Canada)) #8

I myself, always think about macro nutrients in my meals. Fiber being one of them.

I don’t eat fiber as I used to (with morning oatmeal etc), but I do keep fiber in mind with my decisions of what I’m eating.-- If I’ve had a full day of meat, fat, dairy yesterday with little to no greens/fibre,…I’ll purposely make sure I consume plenty of greens the next day, such as cabbage, salad, higher fiber vegetables etc for fiber, vitamins, minerals.

I do believe fiber plays an important role in quality health, and perhaps it gets lost in the overall focus on fats and minimizing carbs…

Out of curiosity… I’ve gone back into my tracking logs from 2017 when I started Keto/LCHF. (as I stopped tracking long ago) My fiber consumption was on average 12g-15g/day from vegetables/raspberries/avocados/etc === Equating to roughly 35% of my daily carb intake.

(Bob M) #9

It’s WHO…WHO HATE meat. HATE it. They have a vegan/vegetarian agenda.

I believe the importance of fiber is completely overrated. I think fiber, for some people, is bad for them. The more I’ve tended to eat just meat, the better I’ve felt.

Random studies/articles:

“Dietary fiber intake can obviously increase stool frequency in patients with constipation. It does not obviously improve stool consistency, treatment success, laxative use and painful defecation.”

" Studies have repeatedly failed to detect that patients with constipation eat less fibre than people without it. Worse (for the Cereal Industry), those studies have observed that there is no benefit for constipation when fibre is added to the diet.

But something really interesting happens when you reverse the treatment. A recent trial measured the effect of removing fibre from the diet of people with constipation, with spectacular results.

Six months after the added fibre was removed, ALL of the (initially) constipated patients no longer suffered from constipation, bloating, bleeding or pain. In contrast the folks who stayed on high fibre diet still had all of those problems."

See:
http://davidgillespie.org/4-good-reasons-not-to-add-fibre-to-your-diet/

The study they discuss:

“Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms”

(John) #10

If I could lose weight with natural appetite suppression while eating a high fiber diet, I would be quite willing to give it a shot.

Different things work for different people, depending on how much weight they have to lose and whether or not they are trying to reverse metabolic syndrome, or insulin resistance, or type 2 diabetes.

I feel better and function better overall (and even lose weight faster) when I make sure to incorporate a reasonable amount of healthy carbs in my daily choices, but still low enough to be in the lipolytic state.

#11

Doesn’t the WHO still promote vegetable oils on their site?

Anyway, even if they were right, when I was Keto (as opposed to Carnivore now) I was getting way more fiber in my diet than on the SAD. What, they want to shame me eating a jicama over a Fiber One brick bar?

(Garry (Canada)) #12

Ditto.

(Bob M) #13

A discuss of WHO’s anti-meat bias:

(Bob M) #14

I do the same, but I wonder if I have to. When I started 5+ years ago on low carb, I “had” to have vegetables at every meal (which when I started was 5+ meals a day; so little I knew then). As I’ve read more and more, I’ve lessened this. I now rarely eat any vegetables for lunch, sometimes I’ll have olives. Today, for my “blunch” (no breakfast) at 10:30 am (after Body by Science at 6:30 am), I had 3 eggs, a slug (say 2/3 a pound) of shrimp, a container of mussels, a can of anchovies. (Note: lower in fat, higher in protein.) No vegetables. Tonight, I may or may not eat vegetables, depending on what my wife makes for dinner.

Yesterday, I had some sauerkraut with shrimp for my “blunch” at 3pm. I think that caused me stomach upset. It was hard to tell. I also had some green beans (cooked) last night for dinner. That seemed to affect me negatively, as I had steak for dinner, which has never affected me. Of course, causation is always difficult, and maybe it was just not eating all day, then eating. It’s hard to tell.

Anyway, I don’t hold vegetables in as high regard as I once did. I find I can easily go without them, but I still like their taste and they provide some variety. I no longer call them “healthy” though (nor do I refer to anything else as “healthy”, as I’m not longer sure what IS healthy). And I’ve read quite good arguments saying vegetables are actually bad for you, due to the naturally-occurring pesticides, goitrogens, and anti-nutrients in them.

(Garry (Canada)) #15

That’s a strange combination… No wonder you felt like crap! :joy:

(Karen Parrott) #16

Your colon will let you know. Too often colon blow or too little rabbit pellets will give you the feed back you need.

Eyes on your own poo-poos. It’s very individual. It pays to customize and focus on your own gut health. Too many veg, too few really mess me up. Your milage WILL vary- all my 2 cents.

(The amazing autoimmune 🦄) #17

I eat plenty of fiber with the Keto diet. While Listening to a carnivore podcast they made the case that fiber is not needed in the diet and that some people feel better without fiber.

#18

I think scientists are only on the cusp of understanding the importance of fiber. They’ve only recently realized the impact that the gut biome has on various body functions. A healthy gut biome appears to be essential for good health. There’s still a lot that’s unknown, but it seems like certain gut flora need fiber. Resistant starch has been shown to improve some conditions.

I haven’t yet figured out how to incorporate this information into my diet. I’m thinking about adding potato salad and/or beans on a limited basis.

(Rosemary Easter) #19

Fibre - is it the high carb diet's last straw? Keto bashing in the mainstream. "There goes the keto diet!", predicted the celebrity doctor
(Rosemary Easter) #20

My digestion is better with very little fibre.