I listened to the full audio
I knew about omega6 but the way it was presented it realy enphysised the importance of not only reducing the omega 6 but Also improving the omega 3 intake
What I found interresting is the role of carbs and x rays in oxidizing omega 6 fats
Thanks
A post was merged into an existing topic: Australians & Canadians - Dr. Norman Swan - media doctor - lowering cholesterol
Reversed mine!
Had to eat carnivore but no sign of diverticulitis since keto…and I had 7 emergency admissions in 3 months prior to keto. None since.
A link to a video by Dr Paul Mason who outlines high fibre foods in the ketogenic diet and the story about fibre providing the substrate for short chain fatty acids from the gut biome. The information is wonderfully challenging.
In this podcast there is a warning that once diversity of gut microorganisms are lost, then they can’t be regained?
So if we eat a low fibre diet, the biota that feeds on fibre will reduce.
If we eat a no fibre diet, plant fibre that is, then we may lose those digestive bugs?
They don’t come back when cycling through dietary strategies.
Do animal fibres suffice?
For those considering a carnivore way of eating.
https://chriskresser.com/all-about-the-gut-microbiome-and-probiotics-with-raja-dhir/
Lose or just greatly reduce? Are they studying people who lost some species due to anti-biotics? (will listen later)
Also, if some of those bugs are in overgrowth or in the wrong part of the intestines, like in SIBO, then there’s a good reason to have less of them around.
‘Lack of diversity’ sounds like to broad a generalization compared to more specific markers of what species are and aren’t present and/or needed.
Since one of the main benefits of fiber is supposed to be that it gets fermented into butyrate by the gut bacteria, and since a ketogenic diet provides β-hydroxybutyrate (which is as good as plain butyrate, or even better, for intestinal health), I don’t see changes in the microbiome as a serious issue.
Natural selection. The fibre digesting biota becomes extinct.
I’m sure it’s much more nuanced as there would be concurrent evolution and adaptations being made.
My gut feeling is to not create sudden, possibly catastrophic, change to any environment that is outpaces biological adaptation.
I finally got around to listening to this podcast and here’s what I believe is a key point:
Justin’s lab did publish that study that was picked up as kind of the mass extinction inside of our guts that progressively looked at four generations of the high-fiber diet or a low-fiber diet in an animal model. And so they found that by the fourth, at the end of the third generation, even if you switch back to a high-fiber diet, species and strains are gone that are irreversible.
First, this was a study done under lab conditions (mice) where there was no possibility of “contamination” with microbes from an outside source. Even then, it took 3 generations to wipe them out. I’m trying to imagine a scenario where 3 generations of humans are not exposed to common microbes.
Second, I think irreversible was in the context of they won’t reestablish themselves by dietary intervention alone. The whole last part of the podcast was about the company called Seed that produces probiotics reputed to reverse conditions where species are missing.
Third, if looking at microflora on an individual level, lack of diversity isn’t always a Bad Thing IMO. They criticize products that simply throw every species in the mix regardless of whether they are strains proven beneficial or not.
All in all, studying microbiome genetics and what effects various species have in symbiosis with other species and dependant on diet is a science in its infancy. Is it a good idea to be cautious? Sure.
Fibre taken to another level.
Two main grouped types of fibre from fruits and vegetables.
Insoluble fibre e.b. bran, grain husks
Soluble fibre
Benefits of soluble fibre:
Production of short chain fatty acids by colonic bacteria (discussed above)
Can bind up potentially toxic digesta (biotoxins and inflammatory mediators) to pass it through the small intestine to the colon (discussed above. re: Dr. Fung)
Absorbs bile acids released from the bile duct in the response to dietary fats. The bile acids are built from cholesterol. The cholesterol is bound up with the soluble fibre and removed from the body. This is not a cgeer squad for cholesterol lowering. The cholesterol in the bile acids comes from the break down of old LDL molecules (including oxidised LDL). The soluble fibre helps in clearing cholesterol and old LDL from the liver. This means less circulating oxidised and old LDL. The circulation contains healthier, younger LDL particles.
I only just learnt about that benefit of soluble fibre in fruits and vegetables in this podcast:
Soluble fibre specific info at about 47m40s.
“…And so they found that by the fourth, at the end of the third generation, even if you switch back to a high-fiber diet, species and strains are gone that are irreversible. …” …More
That’s what mud pies are for? (we use to make them and actually try to eat them when we were kids) …lol
Dirt (microbes) in the soil belongs in our gut?
Soil based probiotics?
The more sterile your environment is from the womb the less resistant you are to infection from the surrounding geographical area?
Through many generations of so called civilized (sterilized) societies?
Footnotes:
[1] “…Soluble fiber is soluble in water. …” “…Good sources of soluble fiber include oats and oatmeal, legumes (peas, beans, lentils), barley, fruits and vegetables (especially oranges, apples and carrots). Insoluble fiber does not absorb or dissolve in water. It passes through our digestive system in close to its original form. …More
True confession, I did eat some of my mud pies when I was a kid.
Here is an interesting paper on eating mud pies.
I want to discuss dietary fibre some more.
Fermentation into butyrate has been discussed.
Eating higher dietary fibre in conjunction with a standard recommended diet helps bind some of the ingested toxins in that diet (as per Dr. Fung). Then that was discounted for keto eaters because the processed junk foods are removed from a whole food, well formulated ketogenic diet.
The benefit of dietary fibre via bile for removal of oxidised LDL is an interesting nuance.
But this food “toxin” issue is interesting.
I was listening to Dr. Dale Bredesen talking on the Fat Emperor Podcast with Ivor Cummins and he made a point about bioaccumulation of toxins in increasing trophic levels of food. So that animal foods, in particular fatty meats, will accumulate toxins. Those fat soluble toxins then accumulate in the human eating the fatty meats.
Then with rapid weight loss these toxins are released from the body fat stores. The role of fibre in this context is to collect the excreted toxins in the GI tract and bind them into faeces for removal from the body. However, if dietary fibre is inadequate, then the toxins potentially will not be bound in the fibre load for excretion but perpetually recirculate into the blood stream maintaining a toxic state.
Fibre is not an essential nutrient. But it may move across to a medicinal purpose with roles in toxin removal. So in the case of people following nutritional ketosis for weight loss it may prove beneficial. Or in the case of budget restricted eating meats with potentially higher toxin levels in the dietary fats, the dietary fibre may be beneficial.
These studies were included in a Peak Human podcast debunking fiber as a beneficial carbohydrate:
This paper shows an inverse relationship between fiber intake and diverticulosis:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3724216/
This paper shows that less fiber and less frequent bowel movements decreased the risk of diverticulosis:
https://www.cghjournal.org/article/S1542-3565(13)01056-2/abstract
Next, this study was a randomized controlled study and it shows that reducing dietary fiber reduced constipation and its associated symptoms:
Oh, and finally: This paper used an epidemiological study to show that less fiber did not increase risk of colorectal cancer
So, if lower fiber, in fact, causes less constipation, it seems it would be more prudent to eat less fiber so one can excrete their waste more frequently. I would imagine that would remove toxins better than worrying about having fiber. Fiber doesn’t necessarily help move things along or it may actually cause other health problems within the colon.
Once again, conflicting studies involving human physiology. Sigh.
This sounds like more dodgy weak science to me. What science actually backs this hypothesis? You’d need first to support the idea that bioaccumulation of toxins from animal foods caused a toxin load higher than the plants that the fiber is packaged with. Remember, animals are also a source of detoxification of plant toxins before those nutrients are passed on to us. My suspicion is if this were tested the opposite result would be found.
That toxin idea always made logical sense to me, but I think realistically and based on evidence, it doesn’t make much physiological sense.
And then you factor in that plants ARE toxins…
