Having trouble implementing IF

#1

Hi guys,

I have been eating a keto diet since February of this year. My primary reason for implementing this WOE is for improved energy and cognitive function. I don’t have a lot of weight to lose. 51 yo male 5’8", SW: 158 CW: 148. Roughly 15% body fat currently.

I just do not do well with carbs. I was really heavy as a child, terrible diet with lots of refined foods. Extremely high carb, low fat vegetarian for almost 15 years, yada yada. For the last several years whenever I eat a high carb meal I just completely crash. I’ve been feeling much better with keto and would now like to introduce IF but I would love some advice.

I have always felt like I need to eat as soon as I wake up. Literally within an hour of waking I will start to feel shaky and disconnected. I have always assumed that this is a hypoglycemic reaction but now that I am learning more about IF I’m beginning to wonder. I’ve been strict keto for about 5 months. There’s no way this feeling is low blood sugar, right?

I have been working on slowly pushing out my window towards 16:8 but it’s hard for me to even attempt it during the week as it’s difficult for me to do my job when I’m feeling this way. The little bit of rumbling in my belly is no big deal but this fuzzy, shaky mental state is hard to push through.

I had the thought that maybe it was electrolytes so I took an extra 100 mg each of magnesium and potassium. That made it even worse. I almost fell when standing up from a seated position because my legs felt so stiff and heavy.

I actually went 16 hours today but it really messed me up. I haven’t felt right all day long. I’m fatigued and my blood pressure is up.

Have any of you dealt with something similar? Is this just my version of hunger pangs? Any experience/advice is much appreciated. Thank you!

#2

I’m not an expert, and only been attempting IF for a few months. For me, I find it easier to not eat in the morning. Easier - not easy.

I was looking at a couple videos, and one suggested there is some evidence that eating earlier in the day gives a better metabolic lift than later in the day. Have you considered eating a nice keto breakfast and later lunch, then doing the brunt of the IFasting for the rest of the day? Maybe that might work better for you. And if it didn’t, …you could just eat dinner. :slight_smile:

There is no rule that says your eating window can’t be in the morning.

(Raj Seth) #3

Follow Jason Fung’s holy trinity
1- Eat when Hungry (if tempted to have a snack - eat enough to make it a meal!)
2- Eat till satiated/full (full enough that you couldn’t imagine eating another lamb chop)
3- Don’t eat when NOT hungry (regardless of whether it is time for breakfast, second breakfast, elevenses, lunch, etc… thanks Tolkien)

Give your body what it needs

#4

I’m kindof in the same boat. I’ve been at this for several months and THINK I’m fat adapted, except that I still often have a hard time not eating breakfast. I’d say it’s about 50/50: some days I feel hunger but it’s mild enough that I don’t eat and just wait till lunch. But other mornings the hunger is so severe and gnawing that I can’t focus or concentrate on my work so I have to eat.

In my case, I think it depends on what I ate the night before.
Sue

#5

Thanks Alexia, I’ve definitely considered that. I work a 10-11 hour day so it would be a little challenging. I don’t usually get home until 7:30 or so and I don’t have much time to eat when I’m at work. If I had a regular 9-5 I think this would be the ideal solution.

#6

Love this, thanks Rajseth! I’ve just recently discovered Dr. Fung. This all seems pretty straight forward but I’d love to learn more. Was there a specific interview or lecture where you heard him talk about these rules? Is it in his book?

#7

Thank you Sue, glad to know I’m not the only one with these difficulties! I was thinking I might make a portable breakfast option and on the days where I’m not famished take it to work with me and try to slowly push the window out that way.

(Allie) #8

If you’re struggling then you’re not ready, it’s should be a natural thing. Ease off on yourself. It’s not compulsory.

(Chris Robertson) #9

There are a lot of people that practice IF and still find breakfast to be the most important meal of the day. If you are hungry 1st thing in the morning then eat a big breakfast with lots of fat and very few carbs. No carbs in the morning means no crash in the afternoon. Save your carbs for lunch so that the crash happens after you are done with your days work. If you can push your breakfast back and hr or two and push lunch back a bit too then with any luck you can get your crash about when you are going to bed which will actually help you sleep too.

#10

Thank you for that! I am going to ease up and see how things progress.

#11

Thanks for the tips everybody, I truly appreciate your guidance and advice!

I’ve realized that my entire life I’ve never really gone longer than 10 hours without eating so jumping straight to a 16:8 is probably unrealistic. My typical pattern in recent years has been to eat dinner when I get home around 7:30 PM and breakfast at 6 AM, so basically a 10 hour fast.

Eating breakfast and then starting my fast in the late afternoon would make total sense if my schedule was not the way it is. As it stands now, there’s simply not the space to get a full day of meals/calories in during my workday.

Here’s the plan, let me know what you think.

  1. I will start my day with a big glass of water and some coffee with whole cream. I know that many people say this breaks the fast but for me it’s an interim step. I’m thinking this will allow me to push my first meal out another hour or two. Once my new pattern becomes established I will try to go to black coffee.

  2. I will make a more portable breakfast that I can take with me to work. That way I can eat when I feel it is necessary and hopefully slowly push out my fasting window.

  3. I will make this a more natural process and not try to force it, eating when hungry and not worrying about the timing.

(less is more, more or less) #12

What is hunger? How do you know when you’re hungry? Is a “grumbly” stomach a sign of hunger? For me, going LCHF, I’ve learned a lot, and have much more to learn, about actual hunger. Since I fast for religious reasons, and have fasted prior to LCHF, fasting while fat-adapted is infinitely easier, and more fulfilling.

#13

Great questions!

From my original post:

Literally within an hour of waking I will start to feel shaky and disconnected

it’s hard for me to even attempt it during the week as it’s difficult for me to do my job when I’m feeling this way.

I almost fell when standing up from a seated position because my legs felt so stiff and heavy.

I do feel what I would think of as the typical hunger pangs but those are very easy to deal with. It’s the weird neurological symptoms that are disturbing and basically make it impossible for me to function on any meaningful level.

(Christina) #14

Scotlac - I am NO expert but the way you describe your symptoms, I’d guess they are hypoglycemic symptoms and should NOT be ignored! If I were you, I would guess that my system is still a bit deranged and needs more time to heal. Be easy on yourself, eat plenty and within your macros, and do as you outlined above by taking it in small steps. I am like you a little: I work long hours with no reliable break time to guarantee time for a meal, certainly not a big one. A friend has a microwave egg cooker at work, and when I have 10 minutes to spare, I make 2 eggs in it and also microwave some bacon. So - essentially I have breakfast when I get a first chance at a 10 minute break. But if you are having the shaky feeling in the morning, I would not wait - have your breakfast when your body needs it.

#16

Agree… the shaky, faint, can’t concentrate feeling (possibly some anxiety, too?) sounds like a blood sugar thing. I’m way too familiar with those and you really can’t ignore them. Yes, maybe if you were at home with nothing to do you could lie on the couch and it would pass but not many of us have that luxury.

I have definitely found that what I eat the night before affects how hungry I am the next morning. If my last meal is high in carbs, I’m famished in the morning. I believe that’s because your body pumps out the amount of insulin it needed at the PREVIOUS meal?

I can also relate to the work schedule getting in the way of eating what and when our bodies want. I run home for lunch if and when I can find an hour or two that I can be away from the office, but not at a predictable, regular time. So at work I have quite the arsenal of foods that I can grab and stuff in my mouth if I start to feel shaky: hard-boiled eggs, nuts, nut butters, cheese sticks, low carb protein bars, olive oil, butter, cream cheese, etc. It’s not ideal but it helps if I’m ravenous to be able to pop some fat in my mouth.

I would love to do the big breakfast /big lunch solution and do the fasting in the evening, but I still need some semblance of “normal” in that dinner is the only real quality time me and my husband get to spend together.

Yes, life gets in the way, but listen to your body and try to give it what it wants, when it wants it.
Sue
P.S. Not sure if they have them in your local grocery store, but I purchase the already cooked and peeled hard-boiled eggs. Open the bag, salt them, pop them in your mouth!

(Christina) #17

Sue - same here!!

#18

Thank you Christina! It certainly feels like hypoglycemia, I was just having a hard time imagining that after 5 months of strict keto that I would still be having these issues. Shouldn’t I be fat adapted by now? My understanding was that once the brain can utilize ketones for fuel you should no longer be dependent on glucose. Is that an incorrect statement?

I haven’t been testing ketones. I know the urine sticks are not dependable and I just haven’t bothered to buy a blood monitor. Maybe I should do that. I have been super meticulous about staying below 20g net carbs per day so I can’t imagine that I’m not in ketosis but I guess it’s possible.

(Christina) #19

Scotlac - from my limited knowledge (I still have a lot to learn!!) I believe that the longer you have had hyperinsulinemia, the longer it will take your body to correct the insulin response. It is insulin release that is causing you to feel shaky and horrible. I have been pre-diabetic for 20 years and I know I have a LOT of glucose still stored in my liver that needs to be purged. I read that 4-6 weeks in keto and your body has cleared it all out, but I think that’s just a normal person, not one with hyperinsulinemia. I read somewhere to expect a month of recovery for every year you were insulin resistant (and often we are IR long before we get symptoms, so for me I figure 30 years!).

So - I think your body is excreting glucose into your blood in the morning (sometimes called the dawn phenomenon) and your insulin response is too strong, which basically means you need to eat to clear out the insulin from your blood.

Anyway - this is just my limited knowledge talking, but I would guess that you still have some months of internal repair before you will no longer be plagued with the hypoglycemia in the morning.

Keep us posted!

(Christina) #20

Scotlac - from my (again limited) knowledge (LOL) I think the sticks only work in the beginning when you have ketones and they are spilling out through the urine. Once fat adapted, only excess ketones spill and that leaves people with the impression they are not producing ketones when in fact they are making and using them.

I bought a meter (more to check glucose than ketones) and did check ketones a bit. It’s ok to do occasionally but, like the scale, is not necessarily an accurate overall picture, since I believe that if your blood ketones are low, it may mean you are just using them up (a good thing) and not that you are not making them.

#21

That sounds reasonable and lines up with my experience so far. I was never pre-diabetic as far as my fasting glucose was concerned but I have had wacky blood sugar for close to 20 years. Even though I have been on a relatively low carb diet for a couple of years (<150 g/day) and strict keto for 5 months, my HgA1C has never gone below 5.5. I know that’s considered a fairly healthy level but I would think with keto it would be lower.

All in all, I think I still have some more work to do on fixing my glucose metabolism. Thanks Christina!