This was a poster who wanted to ‘control their eating’ and CW responds* * there is a fine line drawn. If you eat pork belly or any other fatty meat and drink water, You are ZC.
If you drink cream and eat butter but only eat a little bit of pork belly because you are trying to maintain some arbitrary ratio, then you are KETO.
See the difference?
When you eat fat at the expense of protein, you stop nourishing your body properly. You may be fueling fine, but your body needs the protein to build muscle and the many other beneficial things. Eating meat as it’s found in nature is the best approach.
You will find that some days you want pork belly all day. The next day, pork belly will make you nauseous and you may even abhor it. You should eat lean that day. The appetite and the “needs of the organism” will dictate which way you go. Ours is the more natural approach.
________________THIS IS from Charles Washington who is Zeroing in on Health (facebook group) and he is now, like 14 years all in carnivore…see what he is saying…get out of your own way and do not ‘think’ this to some ‘overly controlled’ macro eating experiment ‘we think’ we need cause ‘we read XYZ’
just eat what your body tells you to eat at all times and changes will happen and they might ‘freak ya out a bit’ but it is COOL cause your body is telling you exactly what to eat, just listen and yes I had to ‘DUMP’ all my dieting crazy baggage to achieve this true ‘eat as your body says on carnivore’ and listen to truly ONLY YOU~ that is success in a nutshell on this WOE lifestyle.
more chat but as carnivore and ‘ZC’ grows the ‘control of it grows as in some rigid crazy lifestyle land’ and that is NOT a good thing truly for any of us…drop it all, eat as your body says all the time and you will get out of your own way and your body will direct as you personally need into what it requires. Do this ya got this lifestyle and healing your health whipped in fine form
@Fangs Wow that brings some clarity to it all. When I was keto-ing I was checking my macros and nutritional info every day. Since doing Carnivore for last 7.5 months I haven’t really thought about them even though I still like tracking what I eat. I guess I am tracking just to ensure I don’t eat too few calories but having said that I don’t think there is any real chance of me under eating … except on the odd work day. It never worries me about over doing the protein if I want a steak , I eat one, if I want 3… well hey ho I eat 3 lol.
Had a good day today, jumped out of bed just before 7.30am and got hot n sweaty with the stair runs and then to CrossFit to get hot n sweaty again. Funny how you can look in the mirror and not notice changes until one day suddenly Hey whats this all about? lol I did a bit of bodybuilding posing in front of the mirror to see how my shoulders, arms and back were looking and wow my muscles have really grown some since getting back to CrossFit after lockdown. I definitely look stronger than I am lol but I am happy with that. Must be all this meat meat and more meat hahahha. Absolutely loving it, really happy with what I eat and the results I see.
Stopped at The Company shop on the way home and got some good deals.
Spent £31.81:
2 x 500g cooked chicken thighs (for my freezer)
5 x 120g frying steaks which are delish and takes i min each side for rare
1 x 1.83kg lamb whole rack
1 x 1kg smoked bacon
1 x 400g gammon steaks (for my friend)
1 x 4 large pork shoulder steaks (again for my friend)
Was a good day to shop lol!
One in my family has had a dark skin mole cut off their arm (not me). It was a melanoma. It’s Australia. They have been going back for positron emission tomography (PET) scans with radioactive labelled glucose. I found it interesting that this melanoma is a glucose user. After 18 months the PET scan found melanoma cells in their armpit lymph node. The diagnosis now is metastatic malignant melanoma. That means a poor prognosis. The PET scan was full body and no other areas or lumps lit up. So, it’s back to regular monitoring. No lifestyle changes except for “don’t go out in the sun” , no diet questions nor suggestions, and no complementary preventative treatment advice.
In general my extended family thought my WoE was crazy when I went LCHF keto 6 years ago. So we don’t mention it. But my mother-in-law and my mum feed me a lot of meat (and try to sneak in some green leafy, or fermented vegetables). There are no pasta, noodles, bread or starchy vegetables on offer with these ladies. So, I reckon they understand.
This latest test result presents a conundrum. Because the melanoma is glucose fuelled it would probably be worth considering a therapeutic keto WoE to reduce the amount of circulating blood glucose. The cancer patient eats a 3MAD mainly home-cooked wholefood diet, with some breakfast cereal. They love a glass of red wine each evening.
I know what I want to say. But we all know what happens when we offer up the keto WoE when not asked about it. And keto is a step before carnivore on the way to a therapeutic PaleoKetoDiet aimed at high ketones in a very low blood glucose mix.
Back when the first melanoma was removed I suggested looking into using Vitamin B3 (nicotinamide) versus skin cancer recurrence. In doing so I learned that it is effective against non-melanoma skin cancers. In that context it has a science base and papers in journals. It was recommended to me by a specialist dermatologist. But the patient’s doctor said they didn’t know about it and that vitamins weren’t medicine so they advised against it in case it interfered with other medications. I was trumped by a doctor’s opinion. So, discussing dietary approaches in a serious illness is fraught.
Anyone know of a high-calorie, high-protein diet that is full of nutrition?
Sometimes, the dietary recommendations you receive from your nutritionist may sound like the opposite of a healthy diet. Your care team may encourage you to follow a high-calorie, high-protein diet, especially if you are feeling weak or are underweight.
I think the carnivore diet stripped down to beef, salt and water is an excellent foundation for healthing (healing + ongoing health). A place to start without being a place to starve, like other elimination protocols can be. Then all the variety and additions can be investigated on top to suit the n=1.
(Some people are allergic to beef. They could find another ruminant food animal source.)
I don’t bother about macros since becoming carnivore. The only times I worry are on the few in between occasions when I’m eating meat prepared by other people. I worry if they put some kind of sugar in the food, or weird oils. People like to use vegetable oils!
That is a wonderful update on how well you are toning/changing your body composition! More power to you K!
and you are right about no change, no change, no change seen and then BOOM, you see it!! I just got that also in my tummy area. I did the posing in the mirror a bit and see more of ‘a cut’ and definition change in my still lower belly area…I will take it, it made me happy for an almost 60 yr ol’ gal who doesn’t exercise Take all we can get right!
Those food pics are fab! You did quite the haul and that big ol’ pack of bacon in the front of the pic caught my eye…yum!
@FrankoBear, so sorry some one this diagnosis and is dealing with this med issue. I tell ya life marches over all of us at some point.
but you are right, if you go all in with the ‘get rid of all sugar’ in your life most people will think you are crazy plus the elimination of those ‘ever so healthy vegetables’ from their meal plan would be something many can’t understand and if you offer up carnivore as a great plan for this situation, you might truly be looked at in a wrong light for sure. I get it.
And the chat on the board is wonderful cause you are right on this…elimination to the max…then we have to experiment on each of us for our own bodies but we also tho can’t go overboard with experiments, that is when we get in our bodies way too much sometimes. Kinda that balance act.
but in the end we also find ourselves in ‘how we want’ our lives…as in I never want sugar intake again. I never want to eat vegetables again…that is my carnivore concept and I am staying put … But some might want to go a bit more keto and do well and incorporate this or that and keep to that extremely low carb limit and it suits them best.
but one thing about carnivore is if you want it, we have to be it. all in. there is no play into other foods is one does carnivore and wants those benefits and even with Keto Plan…so many rely on processed keto bars and sweeteners etc. and don’t hold closer to eating only real food so…it is a walk on no matter what plan we choose, we have to be the best we can be on that plan.
@Corals, yea I get this…weirdo OLD oils in restaurants…and who knows what other overly processed crap are in anything we order out…I trust a home cook a bit more than ordering out LOL but like you when food is out of our prep control we truly are at the mercy of what is in it. I kinda had issues with this when I was starting my carnivore, I truly wanted no one’s food by my own but realized I gotta eat out some time, I have to eat out in some situations so…I just try to limit it and try not to think about it all too much LOL
------------------ALL ZC going well.
10 oz NY strip steak
few slices taylor ham
6 slices bacon with melted grated cheddar
Have another bigger NY Strip steak to eat later today
and I have a 1 lb. pork tenderloin to cook
been eating lighter but woke up feeling I need more food right now so bigger thicker steak and hound down that lb. of pork and if I want more, yes I will eat more
I am putting my ‘liver capsule’ pills in the garbage. I bought them longer ago and stopped cause I saw/felt no difference, but decided to finish off the bottle and just not buy again, but I am taking some the last days and I have to say my ‘tummy feels just a tad off’ so I am throwing them in the garbage and never going that route again. Many carnivores thrive on no organs etc. for 10-15 yrs on their plans and they are thru the roof great, so nah, I am not focusing on this anymore. I read so many love their liver, take chunks of frozen liver, even buy the grassfed organic liver pills like the ones I bought and WOW it does something for them, but me, they are working against me…so down the drain they go and I am not thinking about this again.
I am gonna carnivore on in my best form that suits me the best like I am doing now!
I have also found this; I’ve been lifting for a few weeks, and my muscle definition / size is much more impressive than it has been in the past (usually 40/40/20 or low carb with most meat being poultry or pork).
In my case, I suspect the increased creatine is key.
And also having the calories to spare to build muscle; I was forever lifting weights whilst eating very low calorie, and I think I was hampering myself.
I never thought about creatine. I suppose I just thought it was a synthetic powder but having just read up on it is in seafood and red meat which of course as carnivores we eat plenty of. I have always been able to build muscle as I got into weight lifting when I first started using the gym after i turned 44 but having lost some during the pandemic with only having lighter weights to use at home I must admit I am amazed just how quick they have rebuilt. I know there is a certain amount of muscle memory but I don’t think they built this quick prior to going carnivore. GIVE ME THE MEAT MUMMY!
Another muggy warm night but I did sleep some albeit I was dreaming weird dreams. Stair runs done … sweaty Betty then CrossFit done …sweaty Betty lol then did the romwod (yoga stretch).
I was hungry by that time so was ready for my brunch which was beef frying steak and 2 lamb racks followed by some cheddar.
Dinner was ham eggs and cheese.
Our fam is spending the week exploring the sights in South Dakota. The weather has been gorgeous (according to my standards) a upper 80’s-low 90’s.
We’ve gone on several hikes, but yesterday was a doozie. We started with. 5.5 mile hike to a lake and did some swimming. Stopped back at the truck, had lunch (1.25 lb ground sirloin w/ sour cream) and headed out to hike #2–Hippie Hole South. This one was to a hidden swimming hole. It was a very overgrown path and the way there was straight down over slippery rocks and gravel for one mile. After enjoying time swimming, we decided to take the “other”—Hippie Hole North—trail back and then walk a ways back to the truck. This trail involved climbing over boulders and going straight up on a rocky path. When we made it to the trail entrance, I felt it was a better choice than going back the way we had originally come.
However, we got lost trying to find our truck! We ended up going 8 miles out of our way in 90 degree heat with a depleted water supply. We walked up and down curvy highway roads and didn’t have sunscreen either. It…was…tough! I was very grateful to be carnivore as that meat I had eaten earlier in the day sustained me until we got back to the campground at 9pm.
Oh, I also must have rubbed up against a poison ivy plant on the first trail as I have a nice swollen leg and a pretty rash:slightly_smiling_face:.
Today is a relaxing day (and catch up in food day)!
Proud of myself for sticking with just beef, salt and water through the last couple of days.
Work has been incredibly stressful, 12 hour days and yesterday morning I had a ptsd trigger set my anxiety off and I felt so sad and overwhelmed that all I could think about was comfort eating icecream. For the first time in a long time I didn’t take the easy route to numb the pain and just let myself be sad. Got into bed and cried between meetings (perks of working from home), went for a walk in the park round the corner, cried somemore at my desk, and then after about two hours I had calmed down and was able to think through what the trigger had been and process some of the memories that had come up. Normally getting triggerred like that on a work day would inevitably lead to a sugar or alcohol binge, so it was weird and different to not go down that well worn behaviour path, but it was lovely to wake up today still in ketosis and not still be suffering from the day before.
@Redrobins --wow that was quite the crazy extended hike! That was a wild read…hope your leg gets better fast!
I love you had your food in the truck…that is exactly the type of thing I do too Enjoy the rest of your trip!!
@AlliCat sorry you had an episode but it was wonderful to read how you coped. They say having extra coping mechanisms for ‘dieting’ is great also when we are faced with cravings, so you are doing great knowing you don’t want to ‘feed the sugar addiction’ and found other ways to recover, cry and let all the feelings out! Not a darn thing wrong with doing just that! Happy your burgers are doing so well for you, eat up
-----------------SO ALL fine in zc land
and down 1 more lb. WEEeee HIP HIP
2.5 for Blune June. Record month for me LOL
food was
1 lb. pork tenderloin
1 cheeseburger patty
2 beef sticks
tin of sardines
I just didn’t want that steak…SO I have to eat that steak today cause I can’t lose it, so yea it will be first meal of the day for me…second meal to be determined later
CARINOVRE STRONG everyone…as we hold our plans we get great benefits and big changes to our bodies!
I feel so much like eating super fat beef. And beef isn’t really my thing. It’s so difficult to find really fat meat!
I have a question for you, knowledgeable friends: is there a point we should stop cooking the meat to avoid the fats becoming bad? I mean, does cooking make good fats into bad ones? If so, what’s the threshold? I know it shouldn’t be black, as in totally burnt, but what about really dark?
I’m asking, because I love some meats, like sausages with a kind of crust, that hardening at the surface where it is very well cooked. Am I ruining my food? Thank you in advance for your info!
you are fine. you eat your food any way ya love it!! you aren’t ruining anything truly so eat up! Also you might find down the road your cooking changes, mine did. I loved my meat cooked to death and thought I would never go more rare and now I eat my steaks rare LOL I wanna see the blood HAHA
and yes regular old stores just trim their meats so fine now…cut off all that good fat which is amazing to me because in truth that fat in a package would up the price for the weight on that meat and they would get a better profit happening…but the ‘society of today’ people don’t wanna see big fat on their meats, it is BAD for you ya know as with other ‘red meat’ and all so it is trimmed up to look very very lean so people are more inclined to buy…me I search out all the fatty cuts I can get! crazy world for sure.
Hey Peeps!!!
Finally had a good night’s sleep. Woke up, no aches, no headache- except for a less intense throbbing in my left leg. I do have a followup appt scheduled with the doctor to review my ultrasound results. And, still waiting for the compression pantyhose to arrive, so as to maybe get some relief while I’m at work. But, this is the first day in weeks that I’ve felt this good.
So, on a hunch last night, I took a couple magnesium supplements before bed. That was the ONLY change I’ve made in days, and seems to have done the trick. I’ve been staying rather clean in my eats, and had very very little dairy. It has been sunny and dry here, and that is taking a toll on the garden. Going out to water the plants in a bit. One of my beef cattle decided to break into my garden and trampled the beans…and who knows that else. I found a torn fence, and hoof prints all over. Grrrr. That one is going to the butcher. Actually, we are going to do 2 this summer/fall. So. I’’ be set with my lovely beef.
Currently, there are 17 baby turkeys in my garage, with a bunch more eggs in the incubator. (We gave 2 to a friend.) This coming year will be one of beef, turkey and eggs. I’ve been buy butter when its on sale, and making Ghee - which stores indefinitely… Love that.
I work the afternoon shift today, so heading out to tend to the garden, gather some eggs, and get a bit of sunshine. I do hope you all have a lovely day, and weekend! Cheers! SB
@SecondBreakfast
I am so happy you got sleep and feel better, and darn I just wish your leg issue would disappear and all good…glad your appt is coming up to see what is doing on it all! wishing you only the best of the best for this
Your garden story is so funny! I know, we had to deal with livestock like maniacs also HAHA
Our funniest was when my hubby’s Dad called and said a hot air balloon landed in our cattle pasture and the bull is charging the basket and the people inside are scared out of their minds! We were like WTH???
Our Angus bull was no joke, could kill ya in a flash and it hated this hot air balloon…found out after ‘rescuing’ them that they had issues and had to land and picked our pasture and the bull was having none of it
but yea we handled him and got them out and it was just so over the top crazy we chat about it to this day …just one of those cool farm stories now.
yea any nuisance on the farm we ate first also, so hear you on that one!
A lot of things doesn’t make sense but our body does it. Mine gets way hungrier if I eat a small meal or if I eat carbs (it doesn’t matter I ate 1500-2000 kcal fatty protein just before, carbs can undo that) but I always get significantly more satiated if I sleep 7-8 hours… No logic but my body works that way.
I am never “full”, I keep that for “my stomach is stretched and full” and I can’t do that without 2kg food. “I feel full” (even when I am very well fasted so my stomach is surely empty) but more like “I feel perfectly satiated” is better. But apart from our terminology, I am the same. Not always, fortunately but it’s pretty normal occasionally that I should stop eating when not satiated, possibly a bit hungry. It will pass and I get satiated.
Extra meal when not hungry at all? Sure, I know that too. But it’s less probable on carnivore, the more meat I eat, the less Keto with its carby plants was different.
I have the same problem with lean meat only, it’s simply not enough calories so I get hungry again. 65-75% fat (in calories) work well for me (okay, I stay fat unless I do everything perfectly and well, I don’t but at least I am satiated and avoid serious overeating. too little or too much fat and I would be miserable. but I have a cute wriggle room now. A year ago I had to stay very close to 65%, nothing else worked. It was mostly my instincts(?) and taste, I don’t get ill. My higher-fat nausea always happened in the very beginning, it was very very short-lived, it was so odd to have less than my usual fat but without carbs).
I am still curious about higher protein but it’s pretty much impossible for me to do. I need to collect all my enjoyable leaner fat items… And avoid the siren song of fats
Besides I stopped tracking and it’s great but I can do it for 1-2 days I presume…
Hi guys, I keep this garlic+cream pork recipe though I won’t use garlic next time… I really don’t like them much with my meat anymore, I dislike them with my roast since ages but it was something different… It was fun! Pork shoulders (I definitely wouldn’t like a leaner meat for this dish) in tasty cream But the garlic cream was so very strong, it took the focus off the meat. So nope, no garlic next time. Alvaro liked the food. It is just a tiny thing using 2 slices of pork (I will use bitesize pieces next time), my staple pork will stay roast and fried mince meat where meat flavors can rule! Meat, salt, heat, that’s the best. But some tiny variety is nice and with small pieces, it will be quick - and Alvaro can eat it with chopsticks, he announced he will
The page with the recipe for the dish (as I never did anything like this… but it was pretty straightforwards… I didn’t use measurements, no need. omg and I had way less garlic as I used a little from my garden… the recipe amount would have been brutal!) contained ads. About not eating meat… The article wrote some of the usual wrong things like seitan is good for meat eaters too who won’t realize it’s not meat… Oh my condolences to everyone without proper tastebuds who can’t even tell meat and plant matter apart. NOTHING is even similar to meat, maybe the texture but flavors? Nothing tastes like meat, just meat. Don’t eat tasteless meat but proper meat has good meat taste.
I got a call from someone selling liquid vitamin C and pomagranate and blueberry concentrate or whatnot… Me being me and her being talkative, we totally talked about my woe She handled it well and told me she can’t even imagine a day without meat… (I didn’t buy anything, I am healthy and I can buy meat with that money but I heard some interesting infos I didn’t know before. Not like I needed it but it’s fun to learn things. I will look them up though, I am not a super trusting one after all these decades among humans.)
Before I ate all my meat, I made some photo, it’s something new in my life, after all, yay, not the usual roast you saw many times already… Just a quick not good one.
The meat was only 220g but I ate an eggy fried pork skin thing too and a little liver.
I am not so much into eggs now. Except pancakes, obviously. And I have head cheese for very delicious carni pancakes now! So I probably eat that for dinner. And I have liver to snack on if I still need something.
I don’t worry, I KNOW they put sunflower oil in it… Oh well, my great body can handle it, my tastebuds have a bit bigger problem. I dislike sunflower taste, always did but while we cooked with sunflower oil, I got desensitized and didn’t feel the taste. When I stopped eating it, I started to feel the taste again.
People here don’t put sugar into meat dishes (I mean homemade dishes and probably most restaurant dishes too, processed stuff has a little but it’s super tiny, even I don’t feel it), it’s still extremely weird to me… Sugar in my meat, nope. I rather fast.
Weather is AWFUL. 30-32C (86+ F), I was 2 minutes outside all day. I wonder how on Earth I will get used to summer if I avoid anything above 23C (that’s my room when it’s hottest nowadays)… But it’s very very nice in the evenings and even during the day in the terrace, we have a little wind… I just shouldn’t be in the sun at all.
I miss my walks I go for one today, after 8pm or something. It’s June, it’s still not anywhere close to dark then!
The garden has various fruits, in very tiny amounts but it’s enough for Alvaro (and if he wants more, he has apples and bananas from the supermarket)… My garden didn’t interfere with my keto this June, it’s so odd… And it probably can’t do much next year as I get farther from fruit eating every year. I already feel some fruits too acidic. Alv says they are normal. I don’t feel them SWEET. I thought I will feel them too sweet as that process started years ago. Nope, I feel our super sweet sour cherries almost only just sour and very acidic. It doesn’t make them tempting at all.
@Carnivoor: And people say a plate without vegetables can’t be colorful What a great plate, vatiety in shapes and colors and textures and flavors! What are those small things?
[…]
The meat and pork skin was very effective as I never got hungry again. At least until now, it’s 9pm.
The evening walk was tiny and still hot… But if one waits more, mozzies come. It’s summer.
Well I had my cac scan done earlier in the week still haven’t heard anything… got all my blood work back from
Dr Cywesl ( the stuff that wasn’t back last week) looks like my adding fat helped… The uric acid its back in normal range, my hdl has come up to a normal range… So it’s only triglycerides and ldl that were red…insulin lvls and c peptides still dropping…
Im struggling with the added cheese causing constipation first time having that since being carnivore I think its worse than the other extreme lol…
My weight is still bouncing up and down but with my blood work looking better, I think the trade off of being 5 pounds heavier for healthier blood work is prob worth it showing that at least something is healing.
Food lately has been liver , bacon flanken ribs ,beef heart and cheese. And chicken breast.
since the cheese caused issues I’ve actually wanted chicken breast which is surprising cos that’s a first for me in the 4 months so today had one 2 meals of flanken ribs one meal with chicken breast and sour cream. In a egg wrap.
Interesting reading on the lower fat I think its fine for those who need something extra if they stalled… But for me I think I’ve done so much restricting on calories over the years unless I constantly keep gaining im happy to let the plan play out because although I’ve seen a gain of a few pounds I’m still not seeing it my clothes and to be honest I love the freedom of not having to diet or cut calories back…to be able to just fix food two or three times a day and eat it…
, no diet questions nor suggestions, and no complementary preventative treatment advice.
So, discussing dietary approaches in a serious illness is fraught.
. It is gold.
…just one of those cool farm stories now.
I go for one today, after 8pm or something. It’s June, it’s still not anywhere close to dark then!