Hi everyone,
I started Keto in January after finding through much frustration that I can only lose weight through lowering carbohydrates. As a registered nurse I am also SO compelled by the science that drives this movement.
I have been soo encouraged by the surge in my energy, especially the fact that I had been finding that previously I experienced extreme grogginess in the mornings (since childhood), I suddenly can wake without any trouble since starting Keto- amazing.
I have been eating up the two Keto dudes podcasts and forums and this is my (ahem) very first post!!
I have 20 pounds to lose, which I have read can be more stubborn to lose, and have been hovering around my loss since I started Keto. This is where I’m looking for advice. I’ve contemplated getting rid of dairy but don’t feel ready to restrict my food choices that much more yet, and I’ve been really intrigued by the concept of fasting, especially since I carry my weight in my abdomen. As I’ve read extended fasts can be particularly good for helping accelerate weight loss due to insulin resistance. I’ve never tested my insulin, but have always been sensitive to blood sugar spikes and experienced sugar cravings.
So here I am, day one of hopefully a 4 day fat only fast. I decided to allow myself tea and coffee, butter and MCT oil. I honestly have not been able to come to a conclusion of whether or not this is a good fast idea or a bad fast idea based on the forums. My goal is fat loss, and while I could do a water only fast I worry about the impact that will have on my ability to perform at work.
Also, is this a futile endeavour? Will I just gain back any weight I lose? Or can I truly create a new “set point” by fasting here and there?
Thanks in advance for any tips or feedback!
First extended fast- hella confused
Juke, welcome to the world of keto! 
Although a newbie, sounds like you are making progress if you are losing weight and gaining more energy.
An additional podcast you may find of interest is “The Obesity Code”. (These contain not only “2 Keto Dudes” but also other knowledgeable personalities in the world of keto)
With respect to “getting rid of dairy”, the main items you need to be concerned about are items such as low fat milks (i.e. skim, 1%, 2%, … milk). Items such as cheese, heavy whipping cream (HWC), sour cream & creamed cheese are OK in moderation. (Avoid “low fat” cheeses. Go for the full fat cheeses on a keto diet.) Milk contains lactose (aka sugar), which is detrimental to a keto diet.
Avoid fasting until you are fat adapted. Once I became fat adapted, my appetite decreased to the point where alternate day fasting does not impact my energy levels. (In fact, my energy levels are higher than when I was a “carb burner”).
The following books I found to be helpful not only on understanding the keto diet, the various types of Intermittent Fasting (IF), the science behind the keto diet, and how to apply IFing;
- “The Obesity Code” by Dr. Jason Fung
- “The Complete Guide to Fasting” by Jason Fung & Jimmy Moore
A key aspect to the keto diet is how it controls the hormone insulin. Once you understand this (and what foods impact insulin), keto becomes more of a lifestyle and not a diet.
One advantage of a keto diet is that (if done correctly), the metabolism will not significantly decrease (therefore, your body will not encounter a significant change in it’s “set point”). (This was one big disadvantage shown for severely calorie restrictive diets such as applied on “The Biggest Loser” TV shows.)
Also, I found the following to be good “graduate level” discussions on the keto diet (i.e. in-depth discussions on biochemistry/exercise physiology of the keto diet, impact to metabolism, with sited research);
-
“The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living” by Jeff Volak PhD, RD and Stephen Phinney MD, PhD
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“The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance” by Jeff Volak PhD, RD and Stephen Phinney MD, PhD
With respect the the above, I had heard that Volak and Phinney had self published the above books because there was concern that a publisher would most likely recommend to “dumb down” the level of science presented. Volak is listed as a dietitian-scientist with a PhD in Exercise Physiology while Phinney is listed as a physician-scientist studying diet, exercise, fatty acids and inflammation with a PhD in Nutritional Biochemistry. Perfect reading for an RN. 
If its your first attempt at fasting I would say try it but if you feel ill or really hungry then eat. 4 days is quite a long time for a first fast. Have you tried just eating one meal a day for a few days to get your body used to fasting. if you have only been keto since January then it might be better to “ease yourself” into fasting rather than just jumping in the deep end. Thats my 2 pennies
Thank you so much for your response, Roy!
The only dairy items I have are HWC, butter and hard cheeses, plus the occasional cream cheese. I’ve read that even these lower carb dairy sources can stall weight loss for some people so that’s why I mentioned the possibility of cutting it out.
I will check out the obesity code podcast and those books by Jason Fung- I did listen to the 2ketodudes podcast that featured him. He mostly talked about water fasting, but I felt like that would be super difficult and that if I could get some benefits (lose weight) through a fat fast I would try that.
In some ways I think I am fat-adapted, since I have no sugar cravings, have great energy, and my appetite has decreased. However, my initial weight was ~155lbs, and I have been as low as 147lbs, but I still fluctuate large amounts (for example, last night I weighed 154lbs, this morning 148lbs. I have no idea why this is happening as I’m drinking lots of water, taking in electrolytes, and have been in ketosis for weeks). I have not cheated once since starting, and am fairly certain I have always kept my carbs below 20g.
This is day 2 of fasting, and with my BPC I am not hungry, but I am feeling somewhat shaky.
I have read mixed advice about counting calories- I know Richard and Carl are big proponents of eating fat to satiety, and I have checked in on my macros from time to time to be certain I am at 75% calories from fat. My worry is that I have a history of overeating, and what if I am still overeating calories and thus not having significant effect on my weight loss.
I apologize for my rambling musings, hopefully you can make sense of them! Again I appreciate you taking the time to respond.
(For background, I am a 29 year old healthy (no type 2 diabetes or other health markers) woman with a history of yo-to dieting- my lowest weight was 128lbs in 2016 through a Paleo diet, I felt amazing but once stressors hit I couldn’t sustain it.)
Thanks for your response, Mark!
I have been experimenting with intermittent fasting, skipping breakfast and sometimes dinner too, and felt ready to plunge into an extended fast- we’ll see how it goes. I’m paying attention to how I feel… I’m just experimenting with it all! As long as I am not doing anything detrimental or HARMFUL with a fat only fast- I did take in about 500 calories yesterday of coconut oil, mct oil and butter alone. What are your thoughts on this?
Food and Water have weight so you have to weigh yourself at the same time every day(fasted) preferably after going to the bathroom and before your first meal 
Welcome to fasting land!
Are you supplementing with salt? If you are shaky, take salt. That may even you out.
Good luck with your fast! I’m current on day 5 or a five day fat fast. I cut my calories by 1/2 from 1900 to 1000 and have been eating 90% fat (1-2 carbs, a few grams protein). Like you I seemed to hit a plateau and was not happy about it. I had lost 33 lbs but still had 50 lbs to go. 
I have to admit it’s been a little tough, I work 15 hour days 3 days a week and the second job is delivering pizza! But this is the last day and I’ve lost about 7 lbs in 5 days. The fat fast does work, but be aware the longer you go the more likely you are to lose muscle mass. From what I’ve read 3-5 days is the best, but studies have taken people all the way to 10 days with little more than 1/2 a lb muscle loss.
If you haven’t already been doing it intermittent fasting works pretty good to. After this fast I’ll be going down to only eating in a 4 hour window with 20 hours fasting, normal calories. Again best of luck, stick with it!
Yes, supplementing with salt. 5g a day, right?
I also take magnesium, but am wary of taking potassium… again, as an RN I worry about the impact it could have on my heart in case I mismeasure!
Thanks for the encouragement, and great job on your extended fast!
Based on what I had heard from Jason Fung I had understood you wouldn’t get much muscle loss at all- I’m not sure what is true about it! I’ve tried to keep doing my light circuit workouts (21 day fix) to maximize my metabolism… this is really an experiment of sorts!
I’m at hour 38 or so and am definitely experiencing hunger pangs- wanting to eat. Determined to power through since I’ve heard that this is the toughest point and if I break through this I’ll really feel the benefits!
Thanks again for your response!
Congrats on getting into the Keto lifestyle! As a fellow RN for 16 years and APRN for 2 years, I can certainly relate to where you’re coming from. I’m 5’5" and about 140lbs… I started keto about a year ago for general health and I wanted to do longer races (I like to do OCRs) without worrying about having to take sugar shots every few hours. I love how I feel on keto and this has been a great community. I actually started paleo 2 years ago (my weight had crept up to 154) and lost about 10 lbs with this. But on keto, I have noticed more body composition changes, more strength, more energy and overall well being. So even if my scale weight hasn’t changed, I don’t think it needs to. Be careful about jumping into fasting too fast… this may actually put more stress on your adrenals. Look into other factors in your life that might be causing stress (work, sleep, family stuff) as this can contribute to weight loss resistance/gain. It’s not all just diet. If you haven’t already, look into strength training… this has been huge for me with the body composition piece. If you do want to try fasting, listen to your body. Try skipping breakfast first before heading straight into a mulit-day fast. And, as others have mentioned, make sure you are top of your electrolytes (particularly sodium). Another wonderful podcast to check out is Shawn Myner’s “Keto for Women” show: http://www.shawnmynar.com/ketoforwomen/
Take salt as you need it. People vary in that. And be good to yourself. If you don’t feel good, there is no shame in stopping. I did a first 7 day fast about 9 months ago. I wish I had done some shorter fasts before, just to get my sea legs. Anyways, I made it through, learned some lessons, and am currently 45 hours into a current fast.
Here is the account of my 7 day fast:
When I do extended fasts, I need to remove caffeine or it makes me shaky. N=1, this is different for everyone. You could try skipping it on day 3.
I believe there is ample research and evidence that fasting DOES NOT cause muscle loss in healthy individuals. In short, fasting stimulates Human Growth Hormone, which builds muscle. The Web abounds with blogs from body builders who use fasting combined with weight lifting to maximize their results. Here are a couple of links that may explain better than I can.
Thomas DeLauer
and
https://youtu.be/v9Aw0P7GjHE (Dr. Jason Fung)
I also began eating ketogenic (in other words, low carb high fat) combined with intermittent fasting in January. I gradually increased my daily fast to 18, occasionally 20, hours. I also completed a 36 hour fast before embarking on my first 5 day fast–presently in the middle of day 3. I recently learned from Dr. Fung’s blog (at IDMprogram.com) that the anti-aging benefits of fasting really kick in after 3 to 5 days.
All my adult life I have eaten what I thought was a healthful diet–in fact I was a vegetarian for seven years. I am 68 years old, and was diagnosed with fatty liver about 10 years ago. I see too many of my former classmates suffering from very expensive and debilitating disease shortly after retirement, and I am determined to buck that trend.
So, sadly to update you all: I broke my fast at hour 43. I hit this insane wall, felt lots of nausea.
I feel kind of down, I had hoped to pass this point which I know is the hardest, but instead I’m trying to chalk it up to progress and build on it in future.
Thank you all for your input and advice!
Thanks so much, it’s so nice to have your input!
What type of strength training do you do? I am trying to get myself in a routine by doing the 21 day fix. I’ve been much more active in the past but am trying to start small and work my way up!
So I’ve been focusing on compound exercises… more bang for the buck that way. Things like squats, push ups, pulls ups (I use a band to help with this), inclined rows, bench press, overhead press and deadlifts. A great free app you can use to get started is 5X5. I am lucky enough to have a barbell with some weights and a bench at home, so it’s pretty convenient. If you don’t have this set up, and don’t want to go to the gym, start with 5 sets of push-ups, squats, lunges, and sit-ups using just body weight. Do 10ish reps (maybe more for the sit-ups), 3 times a week, and it’s a great way to start. I also love vinyasa yoga… it’s completely my “me time”. That and walking my dog on the trails behind my house 
You should be fine … as many of us say listen to your body… if you feel “off” or ill then eat something. If not you should be fine. My longest has been 7 days with cream in my coffee and no solids. Haven;t done one for a while although intermittent fast every day.
Remember you have the rest of your life to extend your fasts so don’t get too worried about your first long one.