Fire in a Bottle - The ROS Theory of Obesity and The Proton Theory


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #101

In English it says: Theobroma Cacao


@SlowBurnMary thanks for your reply :slight_smile: it is sort of pale yellow, an off-white, I’ll take another photo in the afternoon :slight_smile:

@amwassil I (mis)understand that the difference between cacao and cocoa butter is in the manufacturing process, cacao being raw?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #103

My understanding is the differences are cacao butter is extracted at lower temperature, max 115°F, handled to food-grade standards and sold as food. Cocoa butter is extracted at higher temps, is likely not handled to food-grade standards, and most is intended for the cosmetic trade. I also think that the two words are often used interchangeably - much to everyone’s confusion.


Thanks for your explanation, I’ve been confusing the two :slight_smile:


I finally remembered to take a new photo of my cacao/cocoa? butter…can you see the color better?

(Bob M) #106

They are, and I even use them like that. Though I’m eating cacao butter.

(Bob M) #107

Wow, just wow. This explains so much:

Why does your belly fat get preferentially affected? See above.

What this also implies, though, is that if you’re eating tons of PUFAs, guess where they end up? In addition to your belly fat, your heart. This could explain the increase in heart failure, which coincides with the increase in PUFAs in the American diet.

Long chain saturates such as 18-carbon stearic acid (the most saturated fat in the body) is THE preferred fuel for the human heart.

And if your heart and other fat sources are filled with PUFAs instead?

(Bob M) #108

Yes! Yes! Yes! This explains EVERYTHING. I was wondering why I had a strange feeling in my “head”, which I thought was possibly an effect of stearic acid/palmitic acid on the thyroid, so much so that I started doing research on that.

But it’s not. Instead, it’s the effect on the hypothalamus.

And this makes all the pieces fit. Why do I have stubborn belly fat? Probably because PUFAs are there instead of saturated fats. Why am I experiencing lower amounts of belly fat by eating a high saturated fat diet? Why am I warmer now than I used to be? Why do I have “hot flashes” when on this high saturated fat diet? Why did I develop cardiomyopathy? It can all be traced in part to a high PUFA intake.

(Bunny) #109

This (below) does not actually answer any of your questions directly but looked terribly interesting to me.

What your looking at below is actually an invention.

If they are correct this would solve the entire mystery because it explains how that somatype mesomorph can eat pounds of junk and not gain a pound…lol

I can just imagine the pain-staking research they under took to determine this?

If I had any kind of brains in my head and the money, I would be like Bill Gates and ask them how much?

1. A lipid blend, designed to increase the intramyocellular lipid level in an individual, characterized in that it contains

oleic acid of from 50-70%,

n-6 linoleic acid of from 20-35%,

n-6 linolenic acid or longer chain fatty acids of the n-6 family of from 15-25%,

stearic and palmitic acids, together in an amount of from 0-15%, and

polyunsaturated fatty acids of the n-3 family from 1-10%.

2. A lipid blend designed to decrease the accumulation of intramyocellular lipid in an individual, characterized in that it contains

medium-chain fatty acids in an amount of from 40-65%;

glycerides with long-chain saturated fatty acids of from 20-50%, and

monounsaturated or polyunsaturated fatty acids in an amount of from 0-30%. …More

(Jenna Ericson) #110

I previously thought that fat was more likely to be stored in the abdomen because that’s just close to the area where digestion occurs. Now I understand that it’s actually because you have more LPL (an enzyme that prepares fatty acids for uptake by tissues) in your abdomen than in other places in the body.

It also sounds like the same fatty acids that cause fat to be stored in the belly also cause it to be stored in muscles.

(Bunny) #111

This is interesting also, every study I looked at is showing omega 3’s with DHA/EPA being the slowest which may slow down overall absorption into pre-existing adipose tissue besides the ones below are that post prandial dietary fat goes into fat cells 4 hours after ingestion?

I’m still trying to quantify this in my head.

I think this is what Phinney refers to when he talks about the “fatty acid turn over pool.”


[1] Endothelial lipase provides an alternative pathway for FFA uptake in lipoprotein lipase–deficient mouse adipose tissue: Introduction. Lipoprotein lipase (LPL) is responsible for the generation of fatty acids from circulating triglyceride-rich (TG-rich) lipoproteins. The enzyme is predominantly found in adipose tissue (AT) and muscle, where it is bound to the capillary endothelium by its interaction with glucosaminoglycans. Jan 3, 2005 …” …More

[2] Uptake of individual fatty acids into adipose tissue in relation to their presence in the diet “…Results: Net storage of fatty acids in adipose tissue occurred between 1 and 4 h after the meal. In relation to the amount fed, storage of fatty acids differed (P < 0.01) between classes (n−3 polyunsaturated < saturated < n−6 polyunsaturated < monounsaturated); oleic acid was stored in the greatest amounts. These differences agreed closely with published data, except for n−3 polyunsaturated fatty acids. The only individual metabolic step at which significant differences between fatty acids was shown was incorporation of fatty acids into chylomicron triacylglycerol. Differences between fatty acids in rate of extraction from chylomicron triacylglycerol and net uptake into adipose tissue in the postprandial period were significant ( P < 0.01), but not when expressed in relation to proportions in chylomicron triacylglycerol. Conclusions: The characteristic fatty acid pattern of adipose tissue may predominantly reflect the early metabolic handling of different fatty acids. Adipose tissue uptake of n−3 polyunsaturated fatty acids is slow in relation to that of other fatty acids.

(Jenna Ericson) #112

This was a really helpful summary of how dietary fat is treated, but I wonder if it also applies to MCTs, which I thought were processed differently than other fats.

(PJ) #113

I have not yet had the opportunity to shift to a really significant amount of tallow and butter to see if it seemed to make any diff. I have though been able to use tallow for a variety of cooking, like frying eggs in it, or adding it to lean meat for chili. (I think in the future I will buy lean meat, and add grassfed tallow, since I’m buying factory meat.)

Tastes just fine. I was worried, as some on the internet said it had a strong and not very good taste. Maybe it was their brand. Mine does have a smell in the container, but it’s not strong and not bad. I don’t taste anything in particular at all in the finished products though – not like bacon or macademia nut oil or things where you really can taste the difference.

I only lost half my water-weight from being off keto in mid-Nov to Dec, frustrating me, and so I went ahead to my plan for this cycle (had intended to wait until I was at ‘base weight’ again) which is fasting 50% of the week. Last cycle when I did that, I did it just for 3.5 days each, but after a few rounds of it I ended up going a week early to my off plan, which I perceived as “overreaction” to too much fasting and not enough food during feast periods. Hoping to correct that, this cycle instead has the fasting in two 48.5 hour cycles, but which is only one day without food (eating in morning on 1st day and evening on 3rd day). Unfortunately that has greatly reduced my number of eating times to test this fat and hunger thing!

My friend who is doing this too, said to me that she’d had an interesting side-effect from her major shift to tallow and much greater avoidance of pufa: that her sense of smell for fats seems suddenly more intense. And she can suddenly smell the difference, and when she walks into stores or fast food where they are cooking with pufa, it just seems totally revolting to her, where before she was inured.

She said the appetite change seemed very distinct at first, but now she’s not sure if she gets any more of that than she would if ingesting other fats in the same quantity.


PS I’m taking this keto supplement during my fasts that has the basic minerals in it, especially potassium. It tastes like bad lemonade :smiley: but seems very nice. I’m also taking serrapeptase during my fasting periods since I see it as manual autophagy. That stuff hugely helped my eyesight, cleared out my whooping cough damaged lungs, has greatly softened and slightly reduced my fibroids, and friends have had literally miracle effects, from reducing lipedema fibrous structure buildup to clearing out massive scar tissue that sent someone from six years of pain using a cane to no cane and trotting up stairs with ease. There are hundreds or more raving stories about this stuff you can find online, for anyone interested.


I’m starting the test today. :slight_smile:
My period started yesterday and this is the time of the month where I keep my diet carnivore, so there is no better time than now.
I will remove my daily tbsp of EVOO and choose leaner cuts of pork and chicken (I mostly eat beef/veal).

(PJ) #115

I forgot to mention that my new goal in life is to come up with some kind of savory high-fat-bomb that is based in tallow. It is always very hard for me to eat enough fat since all my meat is walmart and I don’t like fatty meats anyway. I eat a lot of butter and cheese but sometimes it’s very helpful to have something I can just grab from the fridge or freezer to get X grams more fat because I need more calories, my protein’s already high, and I don’t want to eat carbs, and I’ve already eaten a good dose of food. I’m very large so that’s part of it, my BMR is about 2300-2400 (which is low for my weight but I am pretty sedentary except occasional working out, still at a low level).

Ideas are welcome. It doesn’t have to be savory I just have a hard time imagining a dominantly-tallow anything being sweet lol.


How about lemon and/or lime with some salt?

(PJ) #117

Sounds like a margarita? :smiley: I think I’d need sweet with that, myself.

I just found one that is a potential. Could replace butter with tallow or half/half. Looks interesting and a bit novel.

Edited to add another potential

Any recipe that has a good chunk of fat in it, the fat could be at least partly replaced with tallow.


Olives are a no-no, I wonder if you can even find sun-dried tomatoes without oil? :thinking:

(PJ) #119

Well I am not avoiding a few minced olives for the tiny amount of fat they have. I’m not eating any significant amount of it and would be eating as much SFA as possible.

I suppose one could make a mock sundried tomato if needed…

(PJ) #120

This article is interesting. Rat study. Compared cocoa butter, beef tallow and lard.