I so agree with Vic on your meal. Chicken is ‘a side’ unless ya eat maybe 2 full on roasters LOL I also use chicken breast (skinless just like you as a side item, just literally for ‘another taste’ so you are doing fine. Truly never doubt you are ever eating too much, if it is carnivore and your body wants it, then that is what you require :slight_smile:

I hear ya on your daughter. It is a hard lifestyle long term cause only thing that got to truly stay on this plan was the science behind what I tackled…make sure she gets all about how sugar is bad truly and how our lives are meant for ‘balance’ and ‘junky foods’ and ‘plants that might be culprits in working against our personal bodies’ do kinda have to be thought about ya know…kinda like 'needing that WHY we zc people do what we do and it helps that mental process. I took my daughter into ‘extreme lc’ and she couldn’t do it so she added back some stuff and ‘does eat some junk’ but I absolutely noticed her making smart choices now with the info I did give her. Like no bread rolls, no crazy extras and dropping down in portions, like I WANT the MONSTER waffle ice cream cone on vacay and now she just gets ‘a small’ so I think as we give the younger ones knowledge that is key. I love your giving her info she needs…she is no diff. than us, just younger and going thru the 'why am I here and fighting carb cravings today? type deal.
A young ZC hero if ya ask me :slight_smile:

Yea me doing taxes soon now also. So much easier without the farm believe me LOL

be sure you eat hearty and heavy a bit. Keep those meats up and don’t let the ‘snacky like eggs and cheese’ take from the heavy hitters ya know…you said you are doing meats but if your ‘mind is on salad’ you aren’t eating enough :slight_smile: I know you are doing great and a bit of salad ain’t gonna harm ya :slight_smile: but make sure ya eat good and girl, in your freezin’ weather and being outside unloading a truck…you need the meats!! Fuel up that body :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

I was bummed to the site had troubles but never forget even if we can’t chat today, we WILL chat later and know all of your zc pals are in your corner at all times!!!

Your doing great in your changes SB!! You hold strong and keep the eyes forward on yourself and how you are doing and ya got this big time!!

yea that thing was a giant hunk. mostly it used used for BBQ, slow cook forever and shred and I thought, darn great price, just ‘cut into steaks’ and try it like that, sometimes tough truly but heck no, it was delish. I got me a new way to eat up on pork now. Another sale find hits I am buying more :slight_smile:
The fat WAS SO satisfying to that level.

(Vic) #162

I can go with that, I’m joining you, no more veal.
Give me big fatty animal’s, bio/grassfed preferably.

(Edith) #163

How is your research on protein quantity and blood sugar going?


I missed this chat about veal.

you know veal is no different truly than how dairy cows are raised.

ALL BABY DAIRY cattle IN MOST normal operations are immediately taken from the mom and put on milk replacement. My best friend owns a dairy, this is and always been natural practice because that milk ‘for that baby’ is the milk people are drinking…baby can’t have no milk for itself and dairy farmers take the babies after like 2 days and put them in pens for bottle feeding. Mom contines to milk for profit and humans to drink and babies are raised on fortified milk.

Now heifers are brought up for next herd milkers.

The baby bulls are usually the ones that ‘become veal’ or sold outside for families to raise their own little beef and then process. So in full truth the practice is normal truly but if you think about it, who ‘wants to eat a baby’ ya know and that is the difference only in the process. They show them in smaller pens etc but that again, IS normal practice on a dairy farm but it is preceived as ‘bad’ when it is not ‘just to make veal’ at all.
If one truly understands the farm biz of whatever livestock you can see what is a normal practice can easily ‘become bad’ in some way when it is not ever the case at all. Veal is not mistreated at all…dairy farms ALL do this truly. Worst life thing is you are born male :slight_smile: and your options in the cow world change up cause the females are more valuable truly and always will be in this farm biz.

A lion takes out a baby gazelle without thinking about it…this is where we split from nature in OUR human thinking so??

Veal in full truth is not ‘some crazy practice’ at all to torture or change those farming practices that are in place over hundreds of years so?

ok my info on veal LOL

(Edith) #165

Update on my digestive woes: I have avoided beef for several days, just eating chicken and pork. Resting pulse rate is going down, stomach and bowels feeling fine. Last night I ate seafood: tilapia and cod. I didn’t notice any histamine trouble.

Today for lunch I am going to eat a New York strip steak and see what happens. :flushed:

Btw, I believe the site was down because they were running out of space and had to put the site on a larger server.

(Edith) #166

Food for thought.

I guess I think it’s bad because the calf spends its life in the pen, not getting to eat the grass and use it’s muscles. I was under the impression that veal is so pale because the calf was anemic and never used its muscles.


No it is cause it is young.

from the net: Veal is the meat from a calf or young beef animal. A veal calf is raised until about 16 to 18 weeks of age, weighing up to 450 pounds. Male dairy calves are used in the veal industry. Dairy cows must give birth to continue producing milk, but male dairy calves are of little or no value to the dairy farmer.

and this is veal. just a young animal treated NO different than a female cow when young…the boy is veal and the girl goes into the ‘young heifer’ herd out on pasture to be bred for her use in the farm biz.

Don’t for a second think veal is ‘bad’ cause it isn’t cause if everyone wants milk…too many boys have to be used for something ya know. Farmers get more for ‘young tender meat’ so they might opt to be a veal raiser at that point if their operation is big enough.

if you love veal eat it up truly. you are not in any way making extra harm to an animal at all in this practice of ‘what farming is’ and what consumers desire.

(Edith) #168

Thanks for the insight. Maybe I shall consider it.


now this is ‘a practice I don’t like’ but remember, there is ‘natural pate’ that is not this farm practice of force feeding.

from the net: Foie gras is a specialty food product made of the liver of a duck or goose. According to French law, foie gras is defined as the liver of a duck or goose fattened by gavage. In Spain and other countries, it is occasionally produced using natural feeding. Ducks are force-fed twice a day for 12.5 days and geese three times a day for around 17 days. Ducks are typically slaughtered at 100 days and geese at 112 days.

They literally force food down their gullets to make the liver fatty and tasty and to me this is not a natural thing…veal is just using a baby animal for end results, some farms for pate is ALL about forcing animals to overeat and produce and this is that tiny bit of IRK I don’t like.

Veal is normal.
Pate…well, know your producer and their practices to achieve this pate ya know.


oh and any and ALL vegans and vegetarians who use yougurt or milk or dairy in ANY form, in any of their processed ‘fake vegan foods’ in the ingredients needing milk or dried milk derivates in any way are ‘making veal’ point blank so? This is just common knowledge ‘others’ won’t ever address truly. Giant comsic monster joke of it all out there? Darn right it is :slight_smile:

(Karen) #171

Couldn’t get on the site either, its been down a couple of days for me. Whars boston butt. Is it rump steak? Good price. I have also had a good shop day. Went for my first trip to The Company Shop. Its for pur NHS staff, police, fire and prison service and forces. They sell stuff thats close to its use by date but not just food. Its like a mini discounted supermarket.

I picked up a kilo of lamb chos for me and same for Raymond. Also got him a kilo of pork chops. They were all half price and will feed Raymond for at least 10 -12 meals . The kilo of lamb chops won’t last that long for me hahaha. Also picked up King prawns for a great pice and other stuff. 2 bags full of goodies for only £22. Will definitely shop there regulatly . It will complement the stuff I get from Lidl. The cheese was like catering sized but cheap as chips. Will have to share some with my daughter cos I don’t think I would be able to get through it all on my own before it turns.

Was doing overtine yesterday and had applied for leave about 3 weeks ago for today and tomorrow. I was told last week it was highly unlikely i would get it authorised because it is half term week this week. But when I popped up to see the admin yesterday he said he was sorting it for me. It was so nice getting up this morning knowing I wasn’t going to qork after thinking for past week I would have to work! What a result!

So I started the day with 100 stair runs and included some exercises into the mix.

Brunch was sauted chicken with cheese no surprises
Dinner was ribeye steak with king prawns and cheese
Again no surprises.

I put the lamb chops into the slow cooker for tomorrow and fried up the scrawny bits with the fat and snacked on that prior to the ribeye.

Oh earlier i had a small portion of gorgonzola.

Doing really well with lots of energy. Loving this woe it’s so so easy.

(Vic) #172

Thnx for the clarifications.

I guess veal is ok and natural food then.

Foie gras will also stay, its to good to let go out of a moral protest. :woozy_face:


LOL I hear ya on that.
to each his own issues in life as we want to take on but the only thing is you can learn the ‘resource’ of your pate one eats and that is ONLY if one wants :slight_smile: I so understand!

(Heather) #174

Awww, thanks! She is a really good kid and I told her not to beat herself up too much over things. I’ve been down that same path many times. I said that hormones related to her cycle can definitely play a part in the cravings and to be on the watch for them.

BACON! I forgot to tell her to eat bacon when those cravings hit. She’s OCD, like me and expects perfection from herself–no salt, no processed foods, no cheese, etc. I have to remind her that sometimes if it’s a choice between a pound of bacon or 3 oranges, a bowl of animal crackers and cheese bread, bacon is the route to go.

Thank you for the input on my foods. I’m definitely over the whole CICO notion, but I’m also working hard to learn when my body is truly hungry and not just head hungry. Sometimes that is hard for me to figure out.


yea I sure get this. I am fighting winter boredom eating right now…eat cause I can LOL It just takes time to get that full truth of when we are truly hungry or not, but some days right? :slight_smile: some days we just wanna eat

and yea, a lb of bacon with a tad of melty cheddar on it was my go to instead of junkier crap. I am sure your daughter would love to hear that one, eat the bacon and enjoy :wink:

(Edith) #176

Well, here is my beef saga update.

I ate a delicious strip steak for lunch. Oh beef, how much I missed you! :heart_eyes: (Although it’s really only been four days.)

I had a slight shortness of breath and my face and scalp became really itchy, but no nausea or the other very unpleasant symptoms.

So, yes a reaction, but not nearly as bad. I am going to continue to test. Unfortunately, there really are a lot of variables: I upped my salt intake, I’ve been supplementing vitamin C, and my period started after a several month vacation.
Also, my oxalate dumping has paused.

I think I will try veal. Veal is beef but without the histamine load. If I react then maybe it’s beef and not histamine. If I don’t react, I will proclaim it’s the histamines.

I appreciate your tutorial on veal today, @Fangs. It has made me more comfortable adding that as a food choice.


Had a tech setback but will get some data tonight. What follows may come across a bit garbled, but I just had a friend message me saying that the surf is up. So, I’m typing fast.

In my last post you can see that a 700g rib eye has about 168g of protein.
168/700 = 24%. So that checks out. Most beef is about 25% of the weight of the piece of raw meat is the amount of protein. My aimed at body weight (to be lean) is 100kg (220lbs). So 100kg x 2g/kg ideal body weight = 200g protein per day. This means I am under eating protein, if I just ate OMAD and one rib eye steak. I need to check the protein in my breakfast, which has a few more ingredients.

3 eggs ~20g protein.

I guess the news is that I lost some abdominal size in the first 5 days. Then went wonky. That progress seemed to have stopped. But I did a clothes fit test this week and I have come down 2 inches in pants size (if we hark back to January’s challenge title). So, the clothes fit test has gone well.

So, eating with some fine tuning on tallow = longer chain animal source fatty acids. And now looking at getting better/adequate protein as a benchmark measure that is double the protein I would have been eating on a ketogenic diet (~ 1g/kg of ideal body weight). With the aim of eating that amount of protein for satiety added on to the extended satiety of longer chain saturated fats. That turns into easily cruising along with 2MAD.

I needed the maths and science to cross check me feeling stronger on some days, but that is contrasted with feeling unwell on others (oxalates?).

The other thing in the mix is something @Fangs ranted on about a year ago about being more physically active when things are going well. It’s instinctive to be moving when the body gets fuelled properly. We can see @Karen18 smashing that crossfit in-the-mix on ZC, all those stair climbs! Some of my bad days are from post activity soreness (over doing physical chores on the property). But other days I feel weak, and that seems to respond to adding salt (apologies to all the people lowering salt) and adding electrolytes, mainly magnesium.

FFFF has been an excellent education based on beef and tallow, mainly.

I found some nice Scotch fillet steaks on my drive home from work in the city back to the rural home. Then when I got home my wife drove in and her greeting was, “Got you some steaks.” (she got the rib eyes!)


wow VE that is a reaction for sure. huh. I hope beef is not your bad guy here :slight_smile: but those little experiments and just trying and finding results is the best way thru it all.

Yea your veal is not some horror show it is made out to be at all.
Veal is a very acceptable meat choice and in full truth of it, honestly they are not ever inhumanely treated at all.

In my friend’s dairy I fed the babies alot of times with her. It is was a ton of work. We would make 40 lb bags of milk replacement and we had buckets with giant nipples on them and we would walk each pen and boy those babies would suck down a pail of milk in a split second LOL I asked why they were penned separately and she said they ‘suck anything’…each other and actually can suck the hair off other babies and make wounds doing just that…huh who knew? So they are penned individually, plus it is also for being so young it is a disease control thing too for the herd.

Absolutely enjoy your veal. Not one darn thing wrong with it!!

Be interesting to see how you do on it.

great post update. typing fast cause the surf is up…omgosh you lucky duck!! and I’m here freezing my butt off with sleety ice raging outside :frowning:

You are down 2 inches in pants size…that is just wonderful! Lean and mean fighting machine we are on a extreme low carb lifestyle, and of course zero carb!

I also overdo my energy filled days. I then feel it a bit too :slight_smile: but ya know to me that is a ‘good soreness’ vs. me having joint pain or something ‘from just being’ alive so our ‘good soreness’ thru physical activity is cool tho to me. Never worry about adding salt as you need it and other stuff as your individual body needs it.

Nice thing is we are so well into our lifestyles and so know ourselves personally that if one takes magnesium and needs it and another doesn’t, no need to worry chatting about it etc…same with salt etc…cause we all know we are individuals and what one little changes one makes won’t always be needed by another. Never any apologies needed on this thread for things like that!

You got steaks and your nice wife thought of you and got more steaks…oh boy that is my kind of household :100:

great post FB

------------------good carnivore morning

My ribeye steak was the chewiest and crappiest I had in a long time yesterday. ugh. oh well it happens----just keep eating them as usual.
Ribeye is not my fav as it used to be. But with a sale price as good as it was I locked into some. When my NY Strips come on sale again at low price I am going ALL IN baby and buying a boatload of them :slight_smile:

Nothing new or different in zc for me. I am ‘just there’ and ‘holding it all’ as usual. Been a tad more hungry thru I think winter boredom but no weight gain or anything. On ZC I can eat big and never gain a friggin’ ounce which is one thing I love about this plan point blank for me.
Thing is I ain’t losing anything against my last darn 15 or so lbs I want gone for good…boo…but that is ok. Just holding my low and waiting for changes to happen as they will. Early spring and out of this icy nasty cold weather means I will flip around in eating and be more active so…I wish I had all that gumption and mojo that the Stair Queen has :sunny: lol

Defrosting a big old Tbone steak for later
I think a lb. of shrimp with that will be great
have chicken and burger if required…and bacon. I haven’t nailed a lb of bacon in a while, it has been on my mind :wink:

So all going well…just cruising…


first meal of the day
holding off cause I am ‘eating way earlier’ than my normal cause I am bored to the gills literally with the ICE falling outside and just winter blues now. bleck!

So I can’t wait to hound down this bad boy truly!!

I am eating more than I ‘should’ in that it is honestly boredom eating. I AM SO close to college for kid now and we ‘semi retired’ where hubby works and I do runs for my 92 yr old mom and I do runs for my 82 yrs old mother in law…I am ‘that caregiver’ and ‘worker’ for that but at this point…I ain’t kidding anyone, I want my DAMN retirement and MY time LOL but life happens ya know HAHA and we do for our family as we must.

OK winter blues are annoying but this steak will make me super happy in just a few…

(Karen) #180

@Fangs i used to have to drive 2 hours each way to my Mum and Dad and then they got old and poorly and I was doing the journey so much and sometimes in snow blizzards. Loved them both to bits. When they both passed on to the other side I must admit to feeling a sense of relief as I had got so tired working fulltine and doing all that driving and the worry of it all. Time with them was really so precious and you can’t get that back. Miss them both. Crazy, that got me all emotional writing that.

The weather here has changed and risen to double figures like overnight. Our crazy British weather again. -6 up to 12° and expected to ruse higher at the weekend! Means I will have to get out in the garden before the weeds start sprouting! I heard Texas is experiencing unprecedented weather conditions!

Yes the stair queen is definitely feeling the energy and has her mojo.
5 x 20 stair runs, 20 sit ups with cycle twists, 20 pu’s and 10 pull ups this morning. Then spent most of the day clearing through the filing cabinets which is a job I have been awaiting motivation for quite some time! Feel great having got through the bulk of that.

I slow cooked the kg of lamb chops from yesterday early afternoon till this morning 7am. Thought they might have cooked to a mulch but no they are tender and yummy.

So brunch was the sauted chicken with meltes cheese
Followed by a small portion of lamb chops
Dinner was a mug of chicken stock and ermmmmm lamb chops lol
Followed that with a small portion of gorgonzola and some canned corned beef

Feeling fantastically ferociously fab fat feb