Feels like I’m dying after four days trying carnivore

(Omar) #83

one last thing

you maybe lacking stomach acid.

take 2 spoons of ACV half way through the meal

#84

I didn’t think you were being judgemental I know it sounds scary to hear someone at 122 talking about weight loss when they are 5”5 but I assure you I would still be in normal weight range even if I dropped to 111-115 . Now I am looking to lose fat and gain muscle and that might actually mean I wouldn’t necessarily even drop that low because eventually my goal is to get lean work out and not just be thin but muscle, I would like some abs even if not a six pack , so when I say ideal weight range it’s just an ideal based on where I have felt comfortable at before but I’ve also never really attempted to gain muscle or get lean in the past so I’m sure I’ll end up bulking up to between 115-130 who knows just depends on muscle gains I guess . Right now I am still not fat adapted even though I’m in ketosis bc all I’ve dropped at this point is water weight, and I’m tired as all get out so I’m not ready for the work out stuff just yet. I’ve gotten a rowing machine and a assault bike and I’m not sure how well that’s gonna work for muscle building because that’s all cardio I think, but hear rowing machine is full body so maybe I’ll get back to that at some point soon.

(Jack Brien) #85

First up: Have a listen to Shawn Bakers HPO podcasts.
Second: There are some great fb pages on carnivore. World Carnivore Tribe and Zeroing in on Health spring to mind as large groups. They can probably answer you questions more succinctly and wont tell you carnivore is unproven.
Third: Eat more steak, specifically ribeye. Its easy to undereat on this WOE. Protein is transformed to glucose on demand, not based on how much you eat. Protein is difficult to overeat, its very filling. Protein is difficult for the body to store as fat.
Fourth: Eat more steak
Fifth: Electrolytes. While many say they arent necessary, I personally get cramp without and take Na, K and Mg.
Sixth: Some people gain weight at first as your body ‘heals’. Suck it up and keep eating more steak, it will sort itself out.
Seventh: 4 days is hardly any time at all, its at the very beginning.

(Jack Brien) #86

Shawn Baker has a rowing machine. And a couple of world records to go with it. And he’s jacked

(Robert C) #87

The evidence that I have of that we should not restrict ourselves to an only meat diet is that we evolved as a species to be able to handle two fuels - glucose and ketones - which gave us an evolutionary advantage by being able to survive in multiple climates and all seasons. Shutting down either system completely (SAD shutting down ketone production, Carnivore shutting down - well minimizing - glucose production) might not be good as a WOE in the long run.

That is not “logic”. Here is a counter example…

If humans truly needed something only found in green vegetables (and could not get enough from eating animals that ate green vegetables) then your logic says that since green vegetables have carbs and fiber, they are not necessary.

Nothing about “there are no essential carbs or fiber” implies that an all-meat diet has everything needed.

There is the practical aspect also. If you are low in potassium and on regular keto - you can jump at the chance to add avocado to all of your dishes. Carnivore can get potassium from meat but less per serving so may have to really eat more than desirable based on satiety. So, instead, the Carnivore person may have to supplement - not the hallmark of a long-term WOE.

(Scott) #88

But I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night

(bulkbiker) #89

That’s a false argument… as there is nothing that we “need” that is found in green vegetables then they simply aren’t necessary… if people choose to eat them then that’s fine too but they are not “essential” and therefore nothing they contain is essential either.

I’m glad you agree that carnivore does not shut down glucose production and in fact it provides us via GNG with exactly what we require thus negating the “need” for carbs or glucose in the diet. Not sure why you bought SAD into the discussion so I’l ignore that part.

(Jeanne Wagner) #90

Take Ronda and Joe with a grain of salt. They are kinda steering people away from carnivore. You really just have to monitor yourself. There are plenty of cases of folks who are super healthy on that way of eating even after 10+ years.

For sure on the electrolytes, you’re definitely going through carb withdrawal symptoms (it’s an addiction, and it’s commonly called Keto Flu).

But make sure you’re getting a decent % of fat of your daily calories. Some people go hypoglycemic if they have a too high protein to fat ratio (i.e.3-to-1). Shoot for 70% fat in calories and see how that does for you. Tweak from there. And don’t be hung up on being in ketosis, you can still lose weight and get healthy if you’re not in it ALL the time.

(Robert C) #91

I am providing a logical argument.
I wrote “If humans truly needed something only found in green vegetables”.
In a logical argument - that is now assumed to be true (i.e. if X is true then Y - it doesn’t say anything about Y if X is not true).
You and I have no idea whether that is actually true (i.e. we both have no idea about whether a baby birthed tomorrow could have a normal 70+ year lifespan without ever having a single green vegetable).
But, in a logical argument that is a counter example to your logical argument - which is that all things with carbs and fiber are unnecessary - you have to make the assumption that there is something else truly necessary found only in a carb and or fiber food. It is a construction to disprove (provide a counter example) to an invalid argument.

Just because something has fiber and or carbs does not imply it is not essential.

(Robert C) #92

I second the “you have to monitor yourself”.

But, there still isn’t enough on this diet for people to safely do it.

For example, I suffer from “iron overload” (untreated long term effects are organ destruction).
I have to drink milk whenever I have red meat to inhibit the absorption of iron.

If there was a good Carnivore book, I think it would include a chapter on having your iron checked (especially men and post-menopausal women) before starting the diet.

There are plenty of good keto books to handhold you through the process and point out the pitfalls.

Not yet for general public for Carnivore.

(bulkbiker) #93

That is not what I have said at all please don’t misrepresent me.
Just writing something down does not mean it has to be assumed to be true when it patently is untrue…

The “if” in your statement means that what you are saying may not be correct, which I agree with, so how can I make the assumption that it is true. That is illogical.

(Jeanne Wagner) #94

Amber O’Hearn is working on a book about carnivore from what I hear. I’m very interested in reading it when it comes out. If you’re not familiar with her, she’s a carnivore for that 10 year mark. No it hasn’t been studied in a controlled environment, hence the monitor yourself caveat which includes lab work to make sure your micro nutrients are at good levels along the way.

Have you seen Amber’s site Empirica? http://www.empiri.ca/

(Kiranjeet Bhabra) #95

I can imagine ur weakness and fatigue…i felt it too:roll_eyes:

(Omar) #96

It was studied in controlled environment for a full year

read about vilhjalmur Stevenson and another person was with him

#97

Plants do have seasons but we also have stomachs and fat storages for that reason. Eatable plants are around all year, just a lot less in winter, but some like roots and some berries survive all year. It also goes for animals to hunt when winter, logically id think theres an significant uptic for meat in diet during winter too but havent read enough to be sure about that.

We evolved from monkeys that had plant based diets and even our teeth are designed to eat plants, not like predators have, good example is cats who are real carnivores and have their stomach, liver, teeth and everything else designed to hunt, eat and metabolize meat. This is also why our cells work the best on plant based diet.

Also the macros u posted, is there some specific parts of meat u only eat or how u get so high ammount of fats? I tried searching local stores for highest fat content beef but was only able to find 23% ones that make 69%/31% macros. Doesnt that also get expensive eating high fat beefs?

(Jeanne Wagner) #98

Thank you for that. I wasn’t aware.

(Robert C) #99

I’m a bit familiar. But, still an n=1. And an n=1 that could obviously benefit directly…

Amber O’Hearn looks like a pre-menopausal woman - extra dietary iron in that case might be a blessing. But, if you have iron overload, the same diet would be a curse (potentially unbeknownst if one didn’t know to check iron).

Again, it is assumed safety without much long term, large scale research that worries me.

(bulkbiker) #100

I’m sorry but I don’t think that is correct either…

I eat mainly steaks rib-eye or sirloin (NY strip as its know in the USA) or 20% fat beef mince which is the highest I can find here.

I buy my meat from a local butcher who is far more competitively priced than supermarkets as well as sourcing their meat from local farms. To me my health is my most important asset so am happy to spend money on it. As I have zero food waste and usually only buy what I need then it i no more expensive than “regular” food shopping and food prep takes a lot less time.

(Omar) #101

I really not sure about this evolution thing one way or another

how long did we spend as homosepien

and how long we spent evolving prior to that

(mole person) #102

I’m convinced that nuts are horrible for my gut issues. I have trouble staying away from them too, but have flare-ups if I have more then a tiny amount. I need to give carnivore a proper chance but it’s really hard to go as restrictive as that would entail.