Fat contributes to insulin resistance


(ryancrawcour) #1

So, while discussing LCHF with my doc this publication was referred to - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9416027
This claims that insulin is required to metabolize Carbs, protein AND fat. Wait, what?
If this is true, then eating a diet high in fat is not the solution for insulin resistance.

IF could be, because that minimizes the amount of time your body is producing insulin. But merely cutting out carbs, and not eating too much protein, will not reduce insulin resistance on its own.

Thoughts? Comments?


(Tom Seest) #2

Excellent question. I believe @erdoke or @richard can provide a much more detailed description than I can, but I will say that Insulin is involved. I’m not sure that your conclusions comment is correct, but they should be able to help you when they get back online later.

Great question though.


#3

Do you have a link to the full text of the study? It is difficult to determine whether they were studying type-1 or type-2 diabetics and whether or not any of the subjects were on ketogenic diets. Also, one of the problems with insulin resistance is that fat cells stop being able to absorb fat from the bloodstream.

Basically, anything you eat has the ability to raise insulin. Stress also has this ability. But since you have to eat something to survive, the goal is to eat the least insulinogenic foods possible. Marty Kendall has an excellent summary of this here:


and here:

He was also a guest on 2KD podcast # 43:

[edit]
Insulin resistance decreases slowly over a long time with various strategies that may include a ketogenic diet and fasting. Controlling insulin on a daily basis is a fundamental step to decreasing hyperinsulinemia, which is a related problem, but not exactly the same thing.


(Meeping up the Science!) #4

Yes. Full study text is always needed for context. You also want to see what data sets the researchers chose to utilize because that can skew their results.


(ianrobo) #5

thats from 1997 and says

" although a high fat intake does appear to contribute to insulin resistance"

in other words no idea, no science … Insulin has since been proven to be there as an hormone for blood sugar to turn sugar into fat NOT fat into fat …

The research centre is http://www.parknicollet.com/for-health-professionals/international-diabetes-center

selling this

http://www.idcpublishing.com/Type-2-Diabetes-BASICS/products/15/

Make your own mind up on what they may sell …


(Meeping up the Science!) #6

Yup. Research is often fiscally driven too. It is important also to read the study to see where the funding comes from. There is loads of political/financial bias in research. It’s not enough to glance at a study. You must read the nitty gritty and do research about the researchers!


(ianrobo) #7

oh look the head of this IDC is trying to sell tech which simply pumps insulin into people. Now this is referred to for T1 but bet they like to sell insulin to t2 eh ?


(Richard Morris) #8

Insulin is not required to metabolize fat. You make insulin when you eat glucose, and alanine in the presence of leucine. You also make insulin when your stomach stretches. So if you eat a lot of fat you might make a little, but not because of the fat you could eat gravel and it would have the same effect.

But what insulin does do in a healthy person is it tells fat cells to hold on to their energy, because it is primarily an energy signal that glucose (or the amino acid alanine) is present.

In a metabolically damaged person that inhibition is blocked and the fat cells are continually releasing floods of energy into the blood. The problem is that a metabolically deranged person also could be making like 10x the insulin trying to shut off the spigot … and it won’t turn off. We make way too much insulin even when there is no incoming glucose.

The other thing that insulin does is it shuts off clean high volume processing of fat in cells into energy. So in a deranged person we make lots of insulin (because tissue all over the body is becoming resistant to it), we can’t shut off the spigot of our fat cells releasing a flood of energy into the body, and cells only use fat slowly (and produce a lot of H2O2 in the peroxisome in the process). Meanwhile all the fat is pushed into every cell in the body which causes cells in the pancreas and muscles to become more insulin resistant.

That’s what type 2 diabetes is. Too much fat being released into circulation from insulin resistant fat cells, and not enough being drawn down by insulin inhibited mitochondria.

The reason a diet low in insulin stimulants (cutting carbs and protein to a minimum) works is because it lowers insulin low enough to enable cells to burn fat (and the fat adaptation improves the speed you can get fat into cells, and increases the enzymes in the cells for dealing with fat).

The reason I believe that people who are hyperinsulinaemic stall at a higher point is that their fat cells slowly heal now they are no longer full to bursting, and they become more sensitive to insulin and stop releasing fat into circulation - which is what healthy fat cells are supposed to do when insulin is high. And because their basal insulin is still above 13 mU/l the stop releasing fat into circulation.

That’s why the way to move past the stall is really to use strategies to reduce basal insulin … like IF, or EF, or muscle building and glycogen depletion (HIIT).


(Meeping up the Science!) #9

@richard Do you have a source for the insulin stomach stretching? I ask because I’ve been trying to find where I read it (I learned it in school) and want to show it to my clients. I have known it for years now and can’t remember where I read it! Arghhh.


(Richard Morris) #10

Dr Richard K. Bernstein is originator of the gravel comment.


(Guardian of the bacon) #11

@richard Is this whole excess insulin preventing cell releasing of fat for energy process the reason some new ketonians feel such a deficit of energy before they become fat adapted? Their body still wants to be a glucose burner but all they are feeding it is fat, poor body has not a clue what to do yet.

It seems the more deranged their metabolism the more severe the effect. I don’t know why but this never clicked in my head before. This seems like quite valuable explanation to newcomers that are wanting to throw in the towel after the first week or 2.


(Richard Morris) #12

If they are insulin resistant then their fat cells are likely ignoring insulin too.

So I think the surges of apparent energy during the adaptation phase is the cells burning through all their lipid droplets (the storage of fat in the cytoplasm) and the transports to get new fats into the cell not being quick/numerous enough.

By the end of adaptation they have a whole lot more fat transports (monocarboxylate transporters) at the cell membrane to curry new fat into the cell.


(Gabor Erdosi) #13

Just to address the basic question. All foods elicit an insulin response. That is due to nutrient sensors in the gut that stimulate incretin release (GIP and GLP-1).
A bit overgeneralized, but if you set carbs as insulin promoters at the level of 1, protein comes in at 0.55 and fat at 0.1.
What’s not usually added though is heavily refined carbs, that can score 2-5 on above scale.


(Scott Shillady) #14

Thank you Carol, those were a couple of fascinating articles , and somehow i didn’t listen to that podcast. I have listened to 90% of those I am definitely going to be listening to it at work tomorrow. Really opened my eyes to a few things on food choices as i am fine tuning.


(Tsering M) #15

So, if all I ate was coconut butter or coconut oil, for a snack, that too would spike my insulin?


(Tsering M) #16

What is EF?


#17

EF is Extended Fasting


(carl) #18

No it would not. That’s why this “science” from 1997 is wrong. Eating fat by itself has little to no effect on insulin levels. This has been proven over and over again.


(Tsering M) #19

Thanks!

I did read further down this thread after I posted my question. One person gave an example that if insulin was raised by 1 via carbs (higher if refined carbs), then protein would be .55, & fat .1.

Still, while doing keto, snacking more than once a day, even if all fat, is probably not advised (esp., if metabolically deranged & trying to lose weight/reclaim health)?


(carl) #20

My advice is to eat keto untill you stall, then do a fast/feast cycle