Fast/Feast cycling

fasting
n1
stall

#161

Mayo (Primal Kitchen Avocado Mayo), sour cream, butter, coconut oil, MCT oil, individually and different combinations have been when I’ve been drawn to eat at those times.


(eschor) #162

hey carl. blessings that this is working for you…wondering if i am misinterpreting…doesn’t this sound like the essense of the bio-hack to effect lipid blood readings?? will you get some bloodwork done(nmr–lipid profile)? and share what effect this feast/fast has on your numbers? talk about adventures.


(Siobhan) #163

I should probably also update this to say that I am not doing random days of feasting - I found that once I started there were clear signs given when to start fasting again e.g. the next meal not sounding very good, and I am not ending a fast when my metabolism slows down but either when I get too bored or when it “feels right”. Good results so far, and my stall has definitely been broken!


(Jessica) #164

That’s great! This is where I’m trying to get to. I’m still struggling to read my hunger signals. But I’m only keto for 4 months, so I don’t expect that to suddenly happen. It’s a process, right?

Now, feasting lasted for 4 days. I tried to limit my eating window, and also only have 2 meals a day, as you suggested. I couldn’t avoid a little grazing at the weekend, because we stayed at home. That’s a bad habit I definitely need to work on.
That being said, I only gained 1 pound! That’s totally ok, since I already know, that I’ll loose 2 pounds a day when fasting.

Also, I like how fasting makes life easier. I don’t have to prepare breakfast (-> more sleep), generally don’t have to cook and clean afterwards. No more worrying about what to cook.
I didn’t realize how awesome this is, before experiencing it.

For now, I really like fast/feast cycling. I think this helps me to reach my goal without obsessing over food. Because of that, I feel like this is going to be a sustainable solution for me.

So many great (and patient) people on here. Thank you for sharing! Otherwise I’d still be calorie counting.


#165

Don’t focus too much on the scale either now you have dropped calories @JesS90. Non scale victories (NSV) are also important and motivational e.g. I love having the extra energy to go for longer walks without worrying about food.


(Jessica) #166

:grin::grin: definitely… it’s a process.
As I’m still experimenting, I like to check the scale, just to see if something is working or not. But the number on the scale won’t have as much of an impact as it did before. When I did weight watchers my whole day was ruined when the scale didn’t move. Nowadays I’m a lot more relaxed about that.


(Wendy Van Horn) #167

Thank you all for this conversation! It’s very motivating.

I have been regularly including 24 hour fasts once or twice a week for the past several months and am really pleased with the results. And now I feel like it’s time to up the ante. I finished dinner last night around 8pm and am now aiming for a 48 hour fast before I eat again.

I am feeling a bit nervous about going past 24 hours without eating, but I also know that confronting this “fear” is part of the journey. The collective experience shared on this forum is both inspiring and supportive and makes me feel that I can totally do this. Thank you for sharing!


(I am a Dog (Dog's eat until they burst!)) #168

Go! Go! Go!


#169

I’ve been weighing myself everyday now, not because I am focusing on the scales, but because I needed to kind of immunise myself against them. When I was weighing weekly or less, I would spend the last couple of days before weigh-in in a state of anxiety “will there be a change???” followed by complete deflation (and potentially getting off the rails) if they had gone in the wrong direction. Now it’s like: it’s up-it’s down-it’s down-it’s up… meh. I’m just watching the ebb and flow of my body as it changes and trusting that my body has it’s reasons for holding-losing-gaining as it needs to.


#170

Good luck extended fasters! I started with the Zornfast which I have now extended out to 133 hours. My intention is to go a week, I’m so close now, I think it will be easy to trek on. But I’m looking forward to the feast bit. Making plans.


(I am a Dog (Dog's eat until they burst!)) #171

@Audrey: once you get to 4 or 5 days with no problems it really seems easier to keep going than to go back to the crazy world of eating! When fasting you don’t have to worry about ingredients, shopping, having food in the pantry, who’s picking up the bill for lunch, or even who is doing the dishes!

When I fast I wash my coffee cup, the pitcher is use to measure and warm the heavy cream, the plastic spoon I use and my water glass: that is it for the day!

Be Brave and Fast On!


#172

I like the fat in my diet - my hair is darker and my skin is not dry on keto. On fasts, my hair and skin needs conditioner and moisturizer in this arid climate (or else I look dried out).

I like the feast and fast cycling, but I think that the FAST days should have some fat, or maybe just lower macros across the board.

I am considering making two basic meal plans. One will be for a regular maintenance day (the FEAST) and the other will be for about half the macros (the FAST).

I can then do a few days of one and then the other as I feel it will be best at any given time.

FEAST macros = 20g net carbs, 100g protein, 300g fat
FAST macros = 10g net carbs, 60g protein, 160g fat

I know that the FAST numbers are not much of a fast, but not only do I want the fat for the oil but I also want to not lose more than ten more pounds. Even without wanting to lose weight, I want to cycle FEAST and FAST days so as to keep my metabolism dynamic.


#173

“not much of”? Are you romanticizing the concept of fasting? I mean, it’s 1800 calories man, you can just call it “eating”. :wink:


#174

Like @Kirkor, I wouldn’t confuse the thread with the idea that those macros constitute anything close to being a fast, but instead consider it a “caloric-cycling training methodology” instead.


(Bacon for the Win) #175

that’s what I was thinking too. Looks more like carb/calorie cycling. Definitely not a fast.


(Alex Dipego) #176

I call this undulating calories.


(carl) #177

According to Dr. Fung, you will lose protein due to autophagy while fasting, in addition to body fat. That gets replaced with new muscle/protein when you feast. That’s a good thing: get rid of old cells and regenerate new cells.


(I am a Dog (Dog's eat until they burst!)) #178

The idea of feast/fast cycling started as ‘switching it up’ and working hard to have insulin super low on the fast days while still controlling it on the feasting days. When I did my 46-day fast I had a total of about 1/2 cup of heavy cream, 400 kCal (40 grams) of fat and no carbs or protein at all.

I may suggest there are ways to have only fat on your fasting days, check out some of the fat bomb recipes especially ones with coconut oil for different tastes, so that you can minimize any likely insulin response.

See what works for you!


#179

I am writing this with a smile … :grinning:

Pre keto I considered a fast to mean having nothing. Probably not even water.

However, I have learned that there are many different fasts. If I were the 60 pounds heavier that I once was then I think that it would be great fun to see if I can lose 60 pounds in a month while eating nothing and still exercising. Alternatively, I could pace myself and have many terrific bone-broth fasts of 60 to 120 hours. However, I am now approaching my lowest maintainable BF% and even a three-day fast is now tortuously cold and irritating as it no longer feels right. Because of this, and the hair and skin thing mentioned above, I want fat for sure on any fast day.

In The Obesity Code, Dr. Fung describes a Starvation Experiment (conducted by Ancel Keys) where healthy men with average height of 5’10" and weight of 153 pounds (all pretty close to me) were fed a maintenance diet of about 3200 daily calories for a while and then a “starvation diet” of about 1560 daily calories. I know that the semantics of “starvation diet” and “fasting” are tempting but I want to find something that works for me and perhaps others who reach their perceived ideal weight but still want some autophagy or simply an ability to manipulate their metabolic rate at a static bodyweight.

Carl is right, I probably should keep the protein out of a “fasting” day for the reason provided. How do I get 100g or so of fat with nothing else? … I suppose that I will wind up going with the dreaded 2-or-3-day water fasts for “fun”. Perhaps that can work if I have a LOT of food on feast days.

I do not count calories, but I do track my macros right now. Today my macros will be 20g carbs, 147g protein 350g fat, and using 4-4-9 calories per gram, my caloric intake will be about 3818. I will not gain weight with that. For each of the last few days my caloric intake (similarly calculated) has been as follows without gaining any weight on any day: 3594, 4823, 4722, At the average of about 4200 needed for maintenance, I would be starving at 1800 calories per day - much like a person who needs 2400 for maintenance but undertakes a water fast. Again, perhaps my solution is get only short fasts and not worry about going over three days (which would certainly require quite a lot of daily fat).


(I am a Dog (Dog's eat until they burst!)) #180

1 Tbls of coconut oil is 14 g of fat, 0 carb, and 0 protein.
1 Tbls of heavy cream, great in coffee, is 5 g of fat, 0 carb, and 0 protein.

Coconut oil is mighty tasty and even a bit sweet just by itself and you could probably do that 2 or 3 times a day.

I normally use 4 Tbls of heavy cream in a cup of coffee and can easily have 2 or 3 of those in a day!

So: 3 T of coconut oil = 42 g + 3 coffee each with 4 T cream = 60 g totals to 102 g fat in a day!