Dry Fasting. Is there any science to this?

(Heather) #255

I have found that when I dry fast, I am less hungry. I also seem to enter ketosis much more quickly (after a cheat meal). I used to drink 64-128 oz. of water per day. I also had a problem with edema. Now that I only drink a small amount, when I’m actually thirsty, things are much better.

(Mel Simpson) #256

I an much less hungry too and seem to still pee a normal amount

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #257

Dry fasting: what a great new trend.

New trends I can see on the horizon: amputating a limb = the fastest way to lose weight!!! Also, not being alive reduces living costs and is a great way to drop 180 pounds through decomposition!!!

I mean, WTF people. WT actual F.

(Doug) #258

I think that is indeed the question, Bunny. They say that “food and water deprivation seems to be the most effective dietary protocol, since the magnitude of weight reduction is 50-100% more than observed during juice or water fasting.”

They give references to other studies where presumably people fasted with water or juice (:roll_eyes:). If it’s as simple as them not accounting for water loss, that would explain it, but it would be pretty silly to make such a basic error. So I wonder…

(Running from stupidity) #259

Dehydration works wonders for indicated levels of ketosis.

(Heather) #260

@juice The ketogenic diet is basically a dehydrating diet anyway, so, yeah.:grinning:

(Bunny) #261

Notice how the renal function is drastically improved, kind of strange, you would think it would be the opposite? On another thread on the forum their is a Dr. Bernstein (hope I spelled that right) video who improved his own diabetic kidney/renal (failing) function eating only protein, so if your body is catabolizing its own protein then maybe that explains the improved renal function in these study subjects because your own protein is going to be very nutrient dense and raw? Much like eating organ meats and glandulars (maybe better raw?) from animals or protomorphogens?

Maybe skin, skeletal muscle, ligaments, internal organs is all being slowly catabolized and drinking no water is accelerating it? A good percentage of that weight loss is actually not fat or water weight but catabolized birthday suit? (as measured in the physical dimensions of the test subjects?)

The other could be thermal conditions when not drinking water, they never elude to body temperature or external ambient temperature?

Exposure to heat (to kill cancer) or cold (UCP1-BAT fat burning; leptin reset button) shock (hormesis/stress) seem to do different things when fasting like activating different biological pathways etc.

Abnormal kidney blood results
(Running from stupidity) #262

Really, 11 edits? Probably a good idea to write it offline then paste it in when you’re happy with it, given that this is a recurring theme.

(Doug) #263

Exactly - I’ve seen that a few times and always have that same thought.

I think that internal organs are safe until starvation is pretty far along.

Skin is a question - some people seem to get rid of loose skin in an almost ‘perfect’ manner while others lose comparatively little of it. I wonder how the body regulates the amount of skin, i.e. at some point it’s saying, “things are tight - I need to make more skin cells,” or “things are loose and we’re not eating any protein - so a lot of these skin cells need to go.”

Our skin is roughly 1/6 of our weight, and it rather goes to the back of the line when we get dehydrated. Heart and lung tissue - it makes sense that the body has its priorities. The brain, liver - hey, we’re gonna defend this stuff! Skin is mostly collagen, and this is a big store of water - collagen is ~60% water. Dehydration shows up clearly - collagen strands get “harder” or more brittle, begin adhering to each other and they don’t flex as well. So skin wrinkles, cracks, etc.

Just speculation on my part - did the operators of the study get a good reading by weighing the people during the third day of refeeding? I wonder if it takes longer than that to get all the way back to the same level of hydration as before such a fast.

Ligaments have the fibrocyte cells with collagen and water around them. Beyond the water, there, it’s 70% collagen (which is itself mostly water) so I’d think dehydration would really wreak havoc in the end.

Skeletal muscle - this seems to be a never-ending debate. The loss of muscle is feared to an irrational extent, in my opinion, for most fasting regimens. Some people seem to actually gain lean mass while fasting. I’d like to see a study clearly and simply aimed at muscle loss, if any, while fasting.

(Bunny) #264

I do wonder if their is difference in the duration of a fast, for example the length of time to fast Dr. J. Fung recommends for his patience. Compared to a 5 day fast, shorter fasts might render a little less catabolism compared to longer fasting? E.g. …duration done in cycles of 24 hour fasting compared to tacking on additional days or hours and maybe it might depend on how many days its done at different times in ratio to protein intake etc… I still have not read his published research papers so I’m looking forward to that!

(Doug) #265

I think the difference between true muscle loss and protein catabolism, per se, comes to the fore here. From what I’ve seen, short fasts like 1 day or 36 hours present zero risk of muscle loss. From Dr. Fung’s blog:

Above - alternate day fasting - whether the people were eating a controlled diet or choosing their own food, over 70 days there was a tiny, inconsequential loss of fat-free mass, period. Whether muscle or not, nothing to worry about there.


Protein breakdown falls off really fast when beginning a fast. There is a small amount of circulating protein in the body, and I assume some early, relatively quick effects when autophagy gets increased - the body cleaning up the “easy-to-get-to” stuff.

The Cahill study - during long term fasting, 20 grams per day of amino acids from our guts, basically. That would be 23 days to get to a pound, or 50 days to a kilogram.

Same for 20 grams a day of muscle breakdown - if that was actually what happened.

(It's all about the bacon, baby) #266

I noticed a reference to “juice fast” upthread. I wouldn’t be surprised that a dry fast would produce more weight loss than a juice fast, since juice is practically 100% sugar plus other carbohydrates. In other words, highly insulinogenic—which might have a small, tiny wee bit of an effect on weight loss, just perhaps maybe possibly, do you think? (sarcasm mode: off)

(Alex Ba) #267

I have done several dry fasts, the best was 96 hours, another one of 60, and now i am preparing for a different strategy - 3 days of dry then few days of water fast, then again in the weekend another dry. It is fairly easy, i am simply bored because i stay at home, but otherwise very comfortable…

(Jeanne Wagner) #268

@Alex_Ba you are brave. I just cannot picture not having any fluids for a whole day, much less more than that. I still think it could have consequences, but I don’t know for sure of course. Just stay safe with it.