Does Keto just not work for some people?


#41

Keep in mind that you’ll receive a variety of viewpoints and opinions in a forum, reflecting particular people’s knowledge or lack thereof.

  1. No, 100% fat adaptation does not happen 6-8 weeks for most people. That is generally a 20 something and/or youngish male timeframe. If one looks at the fact that the demographics of keto/lchf includes TONS of midlife people, midlife + female, along with IR people, as well as midlife + IR people, and midlife + female + IR persons! Dr. Phinney has repeatedly clarified that 100% fat adaptation often takes many months and up to 1 or 2 years in some metabolically deranged folks. I’m not obese, and am 52 y.o. female - and experienced a huge, durable shift between month 6 and 7 that I ascribe to reaching full 100% levels of fat adaptation.

  2. Until one is fully-fat adapted, calorie counting is basically pointless. It’s not about calories, it’s about establishing the fat burning physiology. AFTER you are 100% fat adapted, then you can cut back on fat if you’ve got body fat you want to burn instead.

  3. The scale is a heinous illusion - ignore it as much as possible. It doesn’t reflect body recomposition in the non-obese. You’re talking about only “20 pounds” which can also be called something like 25-29% BMI or simply being a bit less lean than you’d like to be (my own range) and keto is gonna prioritize healing your liver, addressing unseen intraabdominal/visceral fat, and restoring atrophied muscle first. Keto will verify your changes far more by measurements changing rather than the heinous scale.

:herb::avocado::bacon::sparkles:


(What The Fast?!) #42

HA!! Also, I have tested this theory and even I thought for SURE I’d weigh less after a :poop:, I definitely didn’t.

It can be for some. I’ve had MAJOR issues with this and it took me literally a year to figure it out. Definitely add salt and magnesium though.

This is me. Not 100 years - but 1 full year (as of this week). I have been up and down 7-8 pounds in the last year, currently at exactly the weight I started at. Extremely annoying.

I don’t want to be a Negative Nancy, but not everyone feels this way. I’ve done a TON of fasting and I wouldn’t describe how I feel as awesome. For me (and others), fasting does not come easily and you have to fight for every hour. But yes, for most people, this is the case.

@jeannieo - yes to everything you said. I’m starting to realize this after a year…I’m going to have to restrict calories if I want results.

This is what I’ve found too - everyone says calories don’t matter, but I can show you my logs from the last year and I can tell you they absolutely do.

I agree with this as well. This has been my experience. I test all three methods (breath, blood, urine) and find a correlation.


(Jamie) #43

Thanks Renee, that’s a good idea for future reference, about the pork rinds at the restaurant. I have replaced chips with pork rinds (which I will forever associate with road trips) but they just don’t have that same crunch and salty aftertaste that I’m really missing. I know it’s probably 85% mental, but I’ve just had such a craving.


(Jamie) #44

Lots of good stuff here, Jeannie. Thank you. I’m a firm believer that there’s no such thing as too much information. I’ve been getting it from all sides and it’s perfect.

I actually haven’t thought about it recently, but my normal hangry feeling hasn’t been an issue lately and I’m not really eating as much as I have in the past. It’s just been so ingrained I didn’t notice when it went away. I’m sure my husband did, though. Also, I already don’t eat breakfast. I never have, just a cup of coffee and then lunch around 11 or 12. So maybe fasting won’t be as hard as I’ve built it up in my head.

I’m definitely going to download an app and start keeping track of my calories. I’ve just been keeping up with my fat and carbs, and sometimes protein. It’s a little overwhelming all at once when you first start Ketoing. Thank you for all the info.


(Raj Seth) #45

If it’s overwhelming go with simple description. Replace all the carbs in your diet with Faaaaaaat!


#46

I know people use LOL too much but I really did when I read this comment. :laughing:

Oh man, I am so much more chill on keto. I was already kind of laid back but now it’s much more so.


#47

Exactly, a lot of it is a mental thing. I am not a “faster”, I just typically don’t eat breakfast so I guess it’s IF. I’ve kind of learned to tell when I’m actually hungry vs just wanting to eat something. There have been several times I’ve just gotten busy and it’s nearly suppertime and I haven’t eaten all day… and don’t care.
I’m not in this for weight loss but not being controlled by needing to eat something every few hours is awesome. Good luck with your journey.


(Liz ) #48

Heh heh heh :wink:

That makes my day, I’m pretty earnest on here so I’m never sure if folks will know when I’m being silly :clown_face:


(Jamie) #49

Lolz. I’m always dry and sarcastic so I just sort of assume everyone else is, too.


(Jamie) #50

Butter on all the things. Got it.


(Nicole Dickinson) #51

Look for the salt and vinegar pork rinds. It helps me when I’ m missing chips :blush:


#52

I’m in a different place than you. Over 100LB overweight.

I really like Dr Fung. Unlike so many, almost everything that he says is backed with clinical studies.

My advise is to listen to his podcasts and if it makes sense to you than he has two books that outline different ways of intermittant fasting.

Keto and Fasting can be done in conjunction. He says that if you are in Keto than Fasting is much easier. Your body just has to go from burning butter to burning bodyfat.

As for the world.
Didn’t you know that eating a low fat died is the only Heart Healthy way of losing weight
Didn’t you know that replacing fats in food with High Fructose Corn Sugar makes Food more healthy.
Margarine is good for you and butter is bad for you.
A ketogenic diet is bad for the heart
Eating fat will give you high cholesterol
The best treatment for Diabetes is Metformin instead of diet
The way to lose weight is to lower the amount of calories that you take in so it’s below what your metabolic rate

Final advise. Stealth Fast. Your body is your business don’t talk about it. Once you lose that weight then you may decide to talk about it. Walk your own walk, talk your own talk.

Reminds me of Woody Allen Sleeper
“Sun is bad for you. Everything our parents said was good is bad. Sun, milk, red meat…college,”
― Woody Allen


(Moriah ) #53

Hi Rob,
So its belly fat with women that is a risk for cancer. because belly fat contains estrogen and the fat secrets estrogen elevating the estrogen level which is a risk for breast cancer esp after menopause. Several of us vintage ladies have had very “interesting” symptoms loosing weight that is a bit like goin back to the cycle thing. :sweat_smile:


(Rob) #54

No doubt. We all store weird stuff in our adipose tissue. I’ve heard the ‘undoing menopause’ by releasing excess estrogen thing a few times for women, mine and some other friends is uric acid leading to lovely gout flare ups, old stoners get THC highs as their stores are released.
The question is not are you releasing estrogen but is that really as much of a cancer risk as you remember. That is what one needs to confirm to be worried. Again, we can all find something somewhere that claims that something causes cancer but almost NOTHING (except for obvious toxins) does to anything like the level of smoking.


(Moriah ) #55

Ya I know it sounds unbelievable, to clarify, loosing the belly fat doesn’t raise cancer risk, having it supposedly does specifically breast cancer because certain breast cancers “live” on estrogen (just like some cancers live on glucose). , I’m busy “workin from home” but I will see if I can find a reputable reference, it will be this weeks challenge. Its a little intimidating because I know you are quite the analytical guy. stay tuned, I will cry uncle if I can’t find it.


(Rob) #56

From what I understand, it is not an either/or question. ER positive breast cancer clearly has some association with estrogen and the impact of the hormone may well be some form of trigger to turn a cell mutation into a tumor, BUT they are still mostly glucose fed in terms of growth. My thought is how much risk does a few months of excess estrogen from weight loss have in triggering a tumor vs. the multiple other causes, the greatest of which seems to be hyperinsulinemia.

The big question seems to be if estrogen is a primary cause of the tumor or not. It’s a bit like the beta-amyloid issue in Alzheimers - cause or symptom. Believing the former may have wasted billions of $s. Anyway, I’m sure that releasing excess estrogen can’t be good for you but I wouldn’t want people to not fix their metabolic issues for fear of a chance of cancer (see bacon :bacon:)

Another thing I’ll add (and I’m not trying to be a mansplaining dick about all this) is that believing the estrogenic cause of breast cancer is what keeps Tamoxifen in it’s multi-billion $ business (with all it’s horrible side-effects, etc). Not wanting to be a conspiracist, but there has been so much conventional wisdom built on such a premise that I remain skeptical.


(Moriah ) #57

yes, I want to clarify, maybe I didn’t explain correctly, loosing weight is not a risk, not loosing weight ( ie standing belly fat in women) is what I thought puts a person at risk for some types of cancer. Whatever, I’m glad I’m keto and loosing weight, many many benefits, belly fat can go even if it messes with the female workings. That female side effect is supposed to calm down after the first several months. like THC going out of your system, (that is hilarious!) Who would have predicated, keto is not only feeding off of the krispy creme from 10 years ago but I guess some people get a free high ! hmmm, free high vs female symptoms. no comment there!


(Rob) #58

but some fail their workplace drug test :flushed:


(Empress of the Unexpected) #59

Could someone fill me in on the “women losing belly fat and having interesting side effects” issue? I’m a vintage female and have a lot of belly fat to to lose.


(James H Shaffer) #60

I know when I started I didn’t exercise the first month or so, just bought the food, planned out the three meals I started with a day and got to taking the supplements I needed, basically just got used to eating this way, with in 6 weeks I reduced the meals to one a day and shortly started doing extended fasts. in months 3 and 4 I lost 28 then 25 lbs in those months. been steam rolling the lbs ever since, currently at 145 lbs lost since 10-08-2017