Does cream in my coffee confound a fast?

(Traci ) #81

No, please ask Doug do show you. He’s the obvious expert here.

(bulkbiker) #82

You included… hence my request for the way to measure manage autophagy in humans…

(Traci ) #83

Not my authority but the authority of the research studies I posted which I obviously trust over random people on a forum, no offense.

(bulkbiker) #84

But when you make claims like these

Dr. Longo has proven that you can induce autophagy by eating up to 725 calories a day consisting of 9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carb, then having cream in your coffee wouldn’t stop it

When he simply can’t have proven it as there is no way of measuring it currently then I’m afraid it weakens your position severely.

Anyway not much point in arguing further… you have your views and I have mine.

(Doug) #85

Mark, while it’s not something that most of us can do at home (:wink:), the number of autophagosomes and lysosomes can be counted. In mammals, autophagosomes form inside cells where the endoplasmic reticulum meets up with mitochondria. Tissue samples and a high-powered enough microscope and there you go. It’s not easy - it’s visual and requires a practiced eye and there’s still a fairly large amount of possible error.

A better way is doing molecular assays of LC3-II protein.

Complicated stuff, but work is being done on these and other methods, and things are improving all the time - due in large measure to the possible/probable application of autophagy therapy to cancer and Alzheimer’s disease, among other things.

(Doug) #86

Traci, those studies do not say that the FMD induces autophagy, nor do they say that the FMD gives any beneficial effects to the same extent that fasting does. If there is a claim out there that “the FMD causes autophagy,” then it most likely came from an overly-enthusiastic advertising copy writer.

No. (A mouse will probably be dead after 4 days of fasting. Very likely at 3 days of fasting.)

There were two groups of 16 month old mice. The control group was fed unlimited standard rodent chow. The other group was fed the FMD for 4 days, 2 times a month. The rest of the time, they got unlimited standard rodent chow.

Versus the control group, the FMD group did see some benefits. Less weight gain, overall. Less fat, and less visceral fat. Less insulin and less blood sugar at the end of the FMD periods - they returned to baseline levels after refeeding. Same for Insulin-like growth factor 1. We can certainly say, “Better than the control group.” But this is far from “Comparable to fasting.”

To say that, “The FMD causes autophagy,” would be ridiculous, going by what the study showed - it would be grasping the most ludicrous, tenuous strand of error - that of mistaking coincidence with anything greater. It would not even rise to the level of mistaking correlation with causation.

With respect to the benefits that did show up for the FMD group of mice, and for humans, the writers of the study report say, “the clinical results will require confirmation by a larger randomized trial.” Quite reasonable. They wisely stay away from claims that cannot be supported by the research.

In the future, if anybody wanted to maintain that such a diet actually induced autophagy, or that it was as effective as fasting, the burden of proof would be on them.

(EMILY) #87

This is my next fat fast for sure! YUM

(Jane) #88

Thanks @OldDoug for your very patient replies to someone who cannot do a water fast but wants to believe very low amounts of carbs and proteins will still give them the benefits of autophagy.

Other benefits - yes - but no proof of autophagy.

Perhaps one day there will be definitive proof we can measure in our own bodies (autophagy pee stick!!!) but until then if I am going to re-arrange my social schedule to fast then I will err on the side of caution for maximum benefits.

Fat fasting is waaaay easier - no doubt about it - but as a cancer survivor I can’t afford to take the easier path if I want to repair the damage from radiation and (hopefully) prevent reoccurrence.

(Cassidy trumpour ) #89

No it doesn’t. Fat doesn’t spike your insulin therefore bulletproof coffee and and cream are fun to have on an IF. Only protein and carbs push you out of fasting state.

(Joanna Parszyk ) #90

I also think that it makes sense.

(Joanna Parszyk ) #91

Fantastic reply, l saved it to no my library to study closer and in more detail in the future!


my exact question w/ IF…

(bulkbiker) #93

It depends what you are hoping to achieve by fasting… as will have been said on all the threads that ask this question.
So what are you trying to achieve by fasting?


5 more pounds weight loss.

(bulkbiker) #95

5 pounds… hmmm I doubt your body will care about cream (not creamer) in your coffee.

But on the other thread you said you wanted autophagy…!


Yes, cream…
I’m a bit new, I thought that autophagy would assist the loss.

(bulkbiker) #97

It may well but 5 pounds for me is a couple of trips to the toilet…
If you get there what are you going to do afterwards… back to regular eating?


No way! Here for life, i plan! Everything about this way of eating makes me feel good and I know the science of it is so much better for me and my body.
I come From chronic dieting and a really bad sugar and carb addiction. I love this way of eating. It’s been almost a month and I feel so much better. I sleep better, I have better energy, I’m basically an athlete and my performance is much better too. In addition, all the diets out there I tried to lose weight on…I was always starving! With a Keto lifestyle I am never hungry and I love the foods!
Good question… I’m not diabetic but like I said, no longer feeling a sugar addiction is an amazing feat and it has happened for me in this short period of time!
Thank you so much for your input and support. Have a wonderful week!

(bulkbiker) #99

WEll sounds like you have it worked out… well done. As for the 5 pounds… I really wouldn’t be worrying… I want to lose another 30 pounds… my body doesn’t been stalled for the past 2 years… however still over 100 pounds down.


So wonderful.We are lucky…bet in 10 years, people will see high carb, sugar as CRAZY THINKING!